Resolving stroke play ties

[Old Skier]

Current system been in use for years but if clubs don’t like the system they can do what they seem fit. Easy way would be just to ban anyone with a handicap you don’t like from entering the comp, simpels. Seems like people are happy to take an entrance fee but don’t want anyone with a handicap higher than there’s to win.

 

[Jimaroid]

My point is that with more precision it is very unlikely to continue to remain a tie. Everyone knows their index to one decimal place, and that will break 90% of ties.

Which is where I don't entirely agree as my preference would be to solve it by not creating the problem in the first place. A 90% solution just seems like we're saying 10% of ties don't matter and that's a dirty bodge.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

So why not simply have competitions of scratch and stop many enjoying playing on the even playing field handicaps allow and bothering to enter

Great idea - a big from me!!!

 

[Leftitshort]

So why not simply have competitions of scratch and stop many enjoying playing on the even playing field handicaps allow and bothering to enter

At least this way the best golfer would win, not the one with the most shots. I’d vote for lowest gross.
If we only played to win, not many of us would play

 

[Leftitshort]

Surely the better golf is the one who has played the fewest amount of shots

Why would a higher handicapper have played the better golf when they played more shots ?‍

Golf is the only sport I know that rewards mediocrity and discourages improvement

 

[Jimaroid]

Why would a higher handicapper have played the better golf when they played more shots ?‍

Relative to their course handicap they may have. Relative to the course par they may not have. I think the handicap system is flawed by trying to treat the two in a single measure but I lack the skills to demonstrate why.

But it's kind of irrelevant. What happens when two scratch golfers tie? Countback fails there too.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

At least this way the best golfer would win, not the one with the most shots. I’d vote for lowest gross.
If we only played to win, not many of us would play

Yep - 99% of club comps are now handicap ones. I don’t have a chance in hell of winning any comps now but it doesn’t stop me entering them

There imo should always be a lowest gross prize but at the very least in the event of a tie it should go to the one with the lowest HC

Relative to their course handicap they may have. Relative to the course par they may not have. I think the handicap system is flawed by trying to treat the two in a single measure but I lack the skills to demonstrate why.

But it's kind of irrelevant. What happens when two scratch golfers tie? Countback fails there too.

Lowest HC index ?

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Yep - 99% of club comps are now handicap ones. I don’t have a chance in hell of winning any comps now but it doesn’t stop me entering them

There imo should always be a lowest gross prize but at the very least in the event of a tie it should go to the one with the lowest HC



Lowest HC index ?

Could always enter a few scratch opens where lowest score wins....

 

[Jimaroid]

Lowest HC index ?

Not sure, the higher has probably played better than usual. And around we go.

 

[phillarrow]

Players know now which 9 holes are going to be used to determine the winner in the event of a tie, how is your proposal any different apart from using fewer holes to start the process. Seems to be way more complicated and just as arbitrary to me. Perhaps I'm missing something.

No I don't think you are, I was just thinking out loud really.

But I do think there is a difference between four specified holes and the entire back nine. They could, for example, be chosen as SI 1, 2, 17 and 18 to 'iron out' handicap differences to some degree?

I'm my mind anyway, there's something about having the increased pressure on these fewer holes that makes their importance more worthwhile than just the whole back 9.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Relative to their course handicap they may have. Relative to the course par they may not have. I think the handicap system is flawed by trying to treat the two in a single measure but I lack the skills to demonstrate why.

But it's kind of irrelevant. What happens when two scratch golfers tie? Countback fails there too.

Could always enter a few scratch opens where lowest score wins....

Im a member of a golf club and pay a significant amount for the privilege which includes competitions being put of for the “whole” membership - so why should someone have to go outside the club and pay even more to play comps ?

Surely the club should have competitions to suit the full spectrum of the membership

Not sure, the higher has probably played better than usual. And around we go.

Pistols ?

It’s prob a rare occasion anyway if you remove countback and put the winner as the lowest HC - how often would we see the lowest HC having the same ?

there will never be a perfect answer for a tie in Amateur club golf

 

[Old Skier]

Im a member of a golf club and pay a significant amount for the privilege which includes competitions being put of for the “whole” membership - so why should someone have to go outside the club and pay even more to play comps ?

Surely the club should have competitions to suit the full spectrum of the membership



Pistols ?

It’s prob a rare occasion anyway if you remove countback and put the winner as the lowest HC - how often would we see the lowest HC having the same ?

there will never be a perfect answer for a tie in Amateur club golf

Sounds like your club need to rethink how they run their comps if this is affecting low and mid handicappers. Why don’t they have relevant divisions set up or aren’t there enough low and mid handicap players to do this.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sounds like your club need to rethink how they run their comps if this is affecting low and mid handicappers. Why don’t they have relevant divisions set up or aren’t there enough low and mid handicap players to do this.

Divisions are there but how how does that help the plus HC to 3 handicappers ?

With the WHS arrival and the increase in handicaps then each week you are seeing regularly 68 and down winning comps and 40 points plus and in all divisions

 

[doublebogey7]

As often is the case this debate has not become another "handicaps aren't fair for the better player" debate. So I'll say it again, all the available evidence points to lower handicapped players being more likely to win handicapped events than higher handicapped players. Sorry if this doesn't suit your narrative but it is the truth. Happy to further debate but you will need to provide evidence to the contrary, I can provide such from my club, that it is the case.

 

[Old Skier]

Divisions are there but how how does that help the plus HC to 3 handicappers ?

With the WHS arrival and the increase in handicaps then each week you are seeing regularly 68 and down winning comps and 40 points plus and in all divisions

We will always have scratch handicap prizes whatever the event however if division are set up for comps on the day it should help.

 

[Jimaroid]

there will never be a perfect answer for a tie in Amateur club golf

Exactly. Isn't it weird we put up with countback as a bad answer? It is to me.

 

[Leftitshort]

As often is the case this debate has not become another "handicaps aren't fair for the better player" debate. So I'll say it again, all the available evidence points to lower handicapped players being more likely to win handicapped events than higher handicapped players. Sorry if this doesn't suit your narrative but it is the truth. Happy to further debate but you will need to provide evidence to the contrary, I can provide such from my club, that it is the case.

We’re not talking about winning just separating winners. How is my gross 78 better than Phil’s gross 70. The whole premise discourages improvement.

I reckon that they should use number of blobs to separate in a stableford comp. A 36 with 3 blobs is worth more that 36 with scoring on each hole. Or at least it seems to be based on the conversations in the club house

 

[Deleted member 23270]

As often is the case this debate has not become another "handicaps aren't fair for the better player" debate. So I'll say it again, all the available evidence points to lower handicapped players being more likely to win handicapped events than higher handicapped players. Sorry if this doesn't suit your narrative but it is the truth. Happy to further debate but you will need to provide evidence to the contrary, I can provide such from my club, that it is the case.

Where would you put the high/low split? I'll check back on my club results to see the ratio.

 

[Colin L]

Surely the better golf is the one who has played the fewest amount of shots

Why would a higher handicapper have played the better golf when they played more shots ?‍

What you're saying, then, is that the player with the lower gross score should be deemed the winner - handicaps having no part to play in it?

On reflection, perhaps what I should have said was that the player with the lower net differential should be the winner.

 

[jim8flog]

Glad to see this thread as I've never understood what count-back is attempting to resolve because it seemed so flawed. I thought I was being stupid and was missing something obvious.

In my mind it's daft because:

1. All (e.g. trophy and physical prize) competitions that require an outright winner should go to play off or are match-play to begin with.
2. If the prize can't be split, the organiser has got the format wrong so goto 1.
3. What's wrong with a draw anyway?

.

Where I play the majority of the trophy comps are just extensions of a regular Saturday medal.
The scores of all players will not be known until they have all finished playing and scores have been verified by the office which will be on a Monday morning.

Countback is easy because the software does it for us.