Repairing damage on green

[guest100718]

Paddy you are in the best of two universes. You don't expect anyone to announce they are going to repair a pitch mark and so if they don't you aren't bothered. If they do, it's superfluous to your requirements but doesn't need to bother you either.

There you are - one happy golfer.

I am happy, I just find this whole subject odd. Why would such a specific things as a making a repair under the nose of your FCs require all this asking etc when there are so many other areas that are far more open to abuse without ever being seen.

what do you do Colin L? Do you actively let ask/tell your FC that you are repairing a pitch mark thats on your line? Would you expect a FC to let you know?

 

[Jack_bfc]

I like to think I am up with the etiquete (sp) POV but as everyone, limited on rules knowledge.

But this is one I wasn't aware of and I usually make a point of repairing more than my own pitch mark if I see it. It never entered my head that it could be called for a rule infringmnet due to testing condition of the green. And I would suggest that knowone I have ever played with would think to call it as a penalty.

The one thing it is doing is making me think twice about playing in any forum arranged meets!!!!!

 

[chrisd]

I like to think I am up with the etiquete (sp) POV but as everyone, limited on rules knowledge.

But this is one I wasn't aware of and I usually make a point of repairing more than my own pitch mark if I see it. It never entered my head that it could be called for a rule infringmnet due to testing condition of the green. And I would suggest that knowone I have ever played with would think to call it as a penalty.

The one thing it is doing is making me think twice about playing in any forum arranged meets!!!!!

Jack ...... lets get this straight. You should repair as many pitch marks on greens as you are able, if its on the line of your putt its still ok to do so, only Paddy is saying that he wouldn't bother telling his fellow competitors what he was going to do and whilst he is ok to repair any pitch mark, on the line or not, he is pretty much alone in risking someone querying something he had done and calling a penalty in a situation where a quick " ok if I mend this pitch mark" would have sufficed.

Believe me Jack, I have played in loads of forum meets and enjoyed them all and despite the "Paddies" behind the keyboard, the guys are diamond at the meets

 

[Fyldewhite]

I like to think I am up with the etiquete (sp) POV but as everyone, limited on rules knowledge.

But this is one I wasn't aware of and I usually make a point of repairing more than my own pitch mark if I see it. It never entered my head that it could be called for a rule infringmnet due to testing condition of the green. And I would suggest that knowone I have ever played with would think to call it as a penalty.

The one thing it is doing is making me think twice about playing in any forum arranged meets!!!!!

Jack, not sure if you've read the thread carefully enough. Of course you can repair pitchmarks, the more the better. Just be sure they are definitely pitchmarks if they are on your line of putt. If there could be any doubt (ie you are in the real world and not Paddy's utopia) then ask a fellow competitor if they agree before you do so. You know, I'd even go as far as to say that would be (generally) a good habit to get into. Others may say it is nonsense.

 

[rulefan]

I like to think I am up with the etiquete (sp) POV but as everyone, limited on rules knowledge.

But this is one I wasn't aware of and I usually make a point of repairing more than my own pitch mark if I see it. It never entered my head that it could be called for a rule infringmnet due to testing condition of the green. And I would suggest that knowone I have ever played with would think to call it as a penalty.

The one thing it is doing is making me think twice about playing in any forum arranged meets!!!!!

You couldn't be accused of testing the green as the prohibition on testing only refers to "rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface".

But you could be accused of "Improving your lie, Area Of Intended Stance Or Swing, Or Line Of Play"

 

[guest100718]

You couldn't be accused of testing the green as the prohibition on testing only refers to "rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface".

But you could be accused of "Improving your lie, Area Of Intended Stance Or Swing, Or Line Of Play"

Whats your view rulefan? should we all be checking before repairing a pitch mark?

 

[Colin L]

Jack, I think you are misunderstanding the discussion. There is no question that repairing a pitch mark anywhere on the green can be considered to be testing the green. The argument is about whether a player should tell the others what he is about to do when there is a pitch mark on the line of his putt. In short, the Rules don't say you have to, but some feel they need to cover themselves against any suggestion that what they are repairing is not a pitch mark since if it weren't, that would be against the Rules. As has been said, there is no resolution to a discussion of whether you should do something you are not required to do! It's leads to what I call a Kenny Dalgleish: "mebbes aye, mebbes naw"

Paddy asks what I do. I just get on with repairing the pitch mark without saying anything and wouldn't expect anyone to do otherwise - unless there were a real doubt as to whether the damage was in fact a ball mark. They are fairly obvious and I can't think of ever having encountered that kind of doubt. Also, the action of repairing a ball mark is so distinctive there isn't any doubt what a player is doing.

 

[CMAC]

As has been proven that so many of us don't know or misunderstand the rules it's always 'best practice' to alert an FC what you are intending to do (not asking permission).

Let's say an FC doesnt know about spike marks, all he sees is a protrusion in his way so he gets out the pitch repairer and flattens it out, if he alludes first it can save penalties and embarrassment.

 

[bladeplayer]

Why?
do you also call them over from the other side of the fairway to tell them you are just chucking a small stone out of the fairway bunker and not a loose impediment? Do you call them over to make sure you dont ground you club in a hazard?
Why pick this particular area to make such a point?

Nope but if im taking a drop i tell the people im playing with ,
i do tell them if im moving a stone in a bunker ,

but like i say if im not sure(on any part of the course) then i would call them over to run it by them what i am doing yes .. saves any questions or doubt ,
Whats wrong with that ?

As regarding this particular area as you ask , well we will all be on the green , and unless its a mahooooosive green we will be in close proximity to each other so cpl of seconds should cover it

 

[guest100718]

Nope but if im taking a drop i tell the people im playing with ,
i do tell them if im moving a stone in a bunker ,

but like i say if im not sure(on any part of the course) then i would call them over to run it by them what i am doing yes .. saves any questions or doubt ,
Whats wrong with that ?

As regarding this particular area as you ask , well we will all be on the green , and unless its a mahooooosive green we will be in close proximity to each other so cpl of seconds should cover it

calling an FC over if you are not sure of the rules is fine, thats not what I am talking about.

 

[bladeplayer]

Constructive answer Patrick ........

I alway tell people "just getting this pitch mark" and if its a previously badly or incorrectly repaired one & im not sure il ask their opinion if it is a pitch mark or not ..
Saves any doubt all round

EDIT or as Chris said

Why?
do you also call them over from the other side of the fairway to tell them you are just chucking a small stone out of the fairway bunker and not a loose impediment? Do you call them over to make sure you dont ground you club in a hazard?
Why pick this particular area to make such a point?

Nope but if im taking a drop i tell the people im playing with ,
i do tell them if im moving a stone in a bunker ,

but like i say if im not sure(on any part of the course) then i would call them over to run it by them what i am doing yes .. saves any questions or doubt ,
Whats wrong with that ?

As regarding this particular area as you ask , well we will all be on the green , and unless its a mahooooosive green we will be in close proximity to each other so cpl of seconds should cover it

calling an FC over if you are not sure of the rules is fine, thats not what I am talking about.

But thats exactly what what i was saying .. hence the not sure

 

[guest100718]

But thats exactly what what i was saying .. hence the not sure

Fine and i have no problem with anyone who asks before repairing pitch mark on thier line. My point is that the OP asked if he needed to get the permission of his FCs before performing said repair. The answer to that is an emphatic NO!

Then we spiral in to a tit for tat where a few forumers feel the need to ram some made up unwritten BS down my throat. If you play a round with me I will repair pitch marks on my line with out giving you a 2nd thought. In my 20 plus years of playing no one has ever asked me before doing the same.

 

[Maninblack4612]

And you have added what to this thread exactly?

About as much as you, actually. It's just when I've got nothing constructive to say I keep my mouth shut.

I actual fact, far from it being rubbish I think the thread has been useful in highlighting a rule and explaining why sticking to the letter of the law isn't always the best thing to do.

 

[atticusfinch]

It's just when I've got nothing constructive to say I keep my mouth shut.

Except just this once?

 

[Maninblack4612]

Except just this once?

Whoops! It just slipped out.

 

[chrisd]

calling an FC over if you are not sure of the rules is fine, thats not what I am talking about.

I like to call them over when I don't think they are sure of the rules!

 

[rulefan]

Whats your view rulefan? should we all be checking before repairing a pitch mark?

I can't tell others what to do, only what I do.

If I am playing, I don't say anything unless I am playing with someone who doesn't know me and there may be doubt about the mark.

If I am refereeing, I will only intervene if the FC or opponent cannot clearly see the mark and if I am doubtful about the mark.

 

[duncan mackie]

I can't tell others what to do, only what I do.

If I am playing, I don't say anything unless I am playing with someone who doesn't know me and there may be doubt about the mark.

If I am refereeing, I will only intervene if the FC or opponent cannot clearly see the mark and if I am doubtful about the mark.

:thup:

I would also add that I would also clarify the situation with some people I do know well, when playing matchplay!

There are a lot of parallels with whether it's appropriate to mark your ball when taking many relief options (you don't have to) or marking your nearest point of relief itself (you don't have to) or even the 1 club length from the NPR (you don't have to) etc etc

As with the question being asked here, I recomend that people do do the above because by doing so you can avoid most possible issues later as well as it being constructive in the context of applying a rule - let's face it for most there's a question mark about most procedures; and for the rest there should be!

For me, if I am going to start gardening on my line within 6 ft of the hole I will always 'ask' (open the door to an alternative perspective) - otherwise I am as likely to be seen repairing one on my line as the other 10 I target on every green!

(I suspect this puts me in the fyldewhite camp rather than with paddy.......so be it.

 

[Foxholer]

I would also add that I would also clarify the situation with some people I do know well, when playing matchplay!

As with the question being asked here, I recomend that people do do the above because by doing so you can avoid most possible issues later as well as it being constructive in the context of applying a rule - let's face it for most there's a question mark about most procedures; and for the rest there should be!

For me, if I am going to start gardening on my line within 6 ft of the hole I will always 'ask' (open the door to an alternative perspective) - otherwise I am as likely to be seen repairing one on my line as the other 10 I target on every green!

(I suspect this puts me in the fyldewhite camp rather than with paddy.......so be it.

Same here!

I suspect that while it might be a 'camp' for the fyldewhite approach, the guest100718 approach probably only needs a Portaloo!

 

[rulefan]

:thup:

I would also add that I would also clarify the situation with some people I do know well, when playing matchplay!

My comment was specifically about people knowing me and therefore knowing (or thinking) I know the rules and play by them.

Certainly there are people I know well or even have only played two holes with, who I watch like a hawk.