Refereeing, again.

[Robobum]

I think you will find that most referees have played football at some level, and often take it up after injuries have stopped them playing.

If by "some level" you mean in the garden vs their younger sister then I agree.

One of the problems refs have is that, because they haven't really played, they have little idea as to what to look for when things get a little bit naughty. Not their fault either, it takes too long to progress to even a half decent level of reffing. As Chris said, who wants to ref on a Sunday morning up to your ankles in mud whilst a fat plumber swears and threatens you all morning.

The Mike Riley (with Premier League financial backing) should be sniffing around The Conference for lads who have not quite made it but, @ 25ish, have 100+ games under their belts at a good standard. Sign them up to be refs, working full time with existing elite refs.
All those Conference games should then be run by these "apprentice refs" who are full time refs learning their trade before becoming the prem refs of 2morow.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Not true I'm afraid.

I know a referee who met with a Premier League ref and he was told that the league had instructed the PL refs to go easy on the awarding off penalties for this problem. The rationale was that, whilst everyone got annoyed when the refs didn't give their side a penalty, the league said that research showed that fans didn't want to see loads of penalties in games. So the fact is that they do see shirt pulling, holding etc just as much as us but don't give free kicks as they are instructed not to.

My source on this is pretty impeccable

My view is that the entire game needs cleaning up

1.Refs need to be made supreme, any argument is penalized by distance or card
2.All this holding of players in the penalty box from set pieces needs to be stamped on, by penalty or card or both
3. Cheating by diving is a red card
4 Technology needs to be introduced for fairness to both sides as in rugby or cricket, it wont stop the flow

Once these happen and the game is played in the proper spirit, the refs job will be much easier, as many of the problems are caused by cheating players trying to get an advantage.

In my dreams I expect

 

[bladeplayer]

we can blame refs all we like but lets be honest if the players played the game more honestly and fairly then the refs wouldnt be conned as much into making wrong decisions ,,
There has to be a panel of ex refs and players put together to act on cheating retrospectivley [sp].. the panel could decide if the player cheated or not or if he just enhanced the contact ,

couple of options then would be have a points system or card system leading to a ban for the players . with the club being deducted points if they accumulate too many ..

It has to be shown at all levels that its cheating and it will cost you if you are caught ,they stop it in the elite level it will eventually feed down to the youngsters ..

 

[chrisd]

If by "some level" you mean in the garden vs their younger sister then I agree.

One of the problems refs have is that, because they haven't really played, they have little idea as to what to look for when things get a little bit naughty. Not their fault either, it takes too long to progress to even a half decent level of reffing. As Chris said, who wants to ref on a Sunday morning up to your ankles in mud whilst a fat plumber swears and threatens you all morning.

The Mike Riley (with Premier League financial backing) should be sniffing around The Conference for lads who have not quite made it but, @ 25ish, have 100+ games under their belts at a good standard. Sign them up to be refs, working full time with existing elite refs.
All those Conference games should then be run by these "apprentice refs" who are full time refs learning their trade before becoming the prem refs of 2morow.

Glad you agree Rob!

I refereed a few older kids games a number of years ago and whilst I was iffy on some of the rules I didn't miss any bad tackles, pushes etc that anyone, like you who played at a better level than me, would also spot in an instance. To get to the top in refereeing you do, these days, need to start pretty young and that precludes refs from playing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Got to be hard to prove intent to cheat though

UEFA tried to ban Eduardo for diving - he said he slipped and then UEFA couldn't prove he meant to dive

Lots of loopholes that any decent lawyer would be able to find ways round

The appeal system and retrospective action on yellow cards and tackles need sorted though

The game should be watched and any tackles missed should be punished - and any incorrect yellow cards taken away or upgraded

Players are responsible for their mistakes and so should refs - Mike Riley was spineless as a ref and continues that way as their chief - they all hide behind him. Make them more responsible and they possibly will get a lot more right than wrong

 

[Blue in Munich]

we can blame refs all we like but lets be honest if the players played the game more honestly and fairly then the refs wouldnt be conned as much into making wrong decisions ,,
There has to be a panel of ex refs and players put together to act on cheating retrospectivley [sp].. the panel could decide if the player cheated or not or if he just enhanced the contact ,

couple of options then would be have a points system or card system leading to a ban for the players . with the club being deducted points if they accumulate too many ..

It has to be shown at all levels that its cheating and it will cost you if you are caught ,they stop it in the elite level it will eventually feed down to the youngsters ..

Maybe part of the problem is that football has long since ceased to be a game at the top level. It is a multi-million pound business, and I'm sure that has some bearing on the win-at-all-costs mentality which I think has some bearing on the player's actions.

 

[Robobum]

Maybe part of the problem is that football has long since ceased to be a game at the top level. It is a multi-million pound business, and I'm sure that has some bearing on the win-at-all-costs mentality which I think has some bearing on the player's actions.

The big money win at all costs idea is a complete red herring made up by those that have no idea about the game.

These guys want to win - end of. If it was in your back garden vs you and your wife, in the neighbours league 4th division, they would want to win and would do what is necessary to do so.

 

[Robobum]

My view is that the entire game needs cleaning up

1.Refs need to be made supreme, any argument is penalized by distance or card
2.All this holding of players in the penalty box from set pieces needs to be stamped on, by penalty or card or both
3. Cheating by diving is a red card
4 Technology needs to be introduced for fairness to both sides as in rugby or cricket, it wont stop the flow

Once these happen and the game is played in the proper spirit, the refs job will be much easier, as many of the problems are caused by cheating players trying to get an advantage.

In my dreams I expect

Got to be hard to prove intent to cheat though

UEFA tried to ban Eduardo for diving - he said he slipped and then UEFA couldn't prove he meant to dive

Lots of loopholes that any decent lawyer would be able to find ways round

The appeal system and retrospective action on yellow cards and tackles need sorted though

The game should be watched and any tackles missed should be punished - and any incorrect yellow cards taken away or upgraded

Players are responsible for their mistakes and so should refs - Mike Riley was spineless as a ref and continues that way as their chief - they all hide behind him. Make them more responsible and they possibly will get a lot more right than wrong

No, no, no, no.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which part and why?

 

[ger147]

The big money win at all costs idea is a complete red herring made up by those that have no idea about the game.

These guys want to win - end of. If it was in your back garden vs you and your wife, in the neighbours league 4th division, they would want to win and would do what is necessary to do so.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. The world's best golfers also desperately want to win, but by and large would NEVER resort to cheating to win. Cheating seems to be an accepted part of Football but I'm not sure why it is or why that couldn't change.

 

[Robobum]

I'm sorry but I don't agree. The world's best golfers also desperately want to win, but by and large would NEVER resort to cheating to win. Cheating seems to be an accepted part of Football but I'm not sure why it is or why that couldn't change.

Like comparing apples and oranges.

Football is a fast reactive sport with contact.

In any case, the players don't make the decisions, they merely ask the referee to decide. No different to Seve asking for a drop when he knows he's not entitled to one.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Is cheating really "accepted" though in football ?

 

[Slime]

I wish that footballers would respect referees as they seem to do in Rugby. He is there to enforce the rules of the game and to protect the players from injury. Without a ref there is no game. By the way I gave up refereeing because I got sick of being sworn at, and on one occasion even spat at. I decided that there were better ways of spending my time.

Eye gouging, spear tackling, hand bagging, stamping, raking, punching, biting .................. all still available to the rugby union spectator.
I don't see much evidence of that in football except for the occasional stamp and even rarer bite!
It's not so much about respecting the referee, (although this certainly could be improved), as it is about respecting the rules of the game.


Slime.

 

[ger147]

Like comparing apples and oranges.

Football is a fast reactive sport with contact.

In any case, the players don't make the decisions, they merely ask the referee to decide. No different to Seve asking for a drop when he knows he's not entitled to one.

Pro golfers penalise themselves all the time even if it means they lose as a result. Footballers would never do that.

 

[Fish]

Pro golfers penalise themselves all the time even if it means they lose as a result. Footballers would never do that.

Never say never, I saw a certain Liverpool player go down in the box and instantly waved at the ref that it wasn't a penalty, a rare treat but a treat all the same.

 

[ger147]

Never say never, I saw a certain Liverpool player go down in the box and instantly waved at the ref that it wasn't a penalty, a rare treat but a treat all the same.

Was more than likely to avoid a yellow for a poor dive...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Di Canio catching the ball to get the keeper treatment when he had an open goal

 

[Robobum]

Pro golfers penalise themselves all the time even if it means they lose as a result. Footballers would never do that.

**Cough**

Simon Dyson

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Was more than likely to avoid a yellow for a poor dive...

Actually it wasn't - Fowler jumped over an on rushing Seaman and Seaman caught his legs - Fowler got up and gestured it wasn't a pen but ref gave him - Fowler then missed the pen

It was an act of sportsmanship rarely seen in the sport

 

[ger147]

**Cough**

Simon Dyson

Doesn't change the fact that almost all pro golfers desperately want to win but behave honestly where as many pro footballers who also desperately want to win do not behave honestly. Cheating in football is the norm.