Refereeing, again.

[chrisd]

Most non football fanatics seem to miss the basic point which is - the referee is the sole arbiter of the rules, no matter what the players say or do, bend the the rules or blatantly cheat. If the ref is good at his job and his assistants are skilled they will make the right decisions and players won't benefit or lose out as a result. So, if I'm right, we just need the most skilled officials we can attract.

 

[Robobum]

Most non football fanatics seem to miss the basic point which is - the referee is the sole arbiter of the rules, no matter what the players say or do, bend the the rules or blatantly cheat. If the ref is good at his job and his assistants are skilled they will make the right decisions and players won't benefit or lose out as a result. So, if I'm right, we just need the most skilled officials we can attract.

:thup:

I actually think that we have a pretty good bunch of elite panel refs - however they get next to zero help from the lino. The game should be ref'd by all three of them, especially as they are all miked up.

Of course, that may be down to the self appointed Hitler with the whistle, I've come across far too many who tell their linos just to flag for throw ins and offside, everything else is down to the ref.........and that's where another problem starts, reffing as though they are the entertainment rather than the players and the game.

 

[chrisd]

:thup:

I actually think that we have a pretty good bunch of elite panel refs - however they get next to zero help from the lino. The game should be ref'd by all three of them, especially as they are all miked up.

Of course, that may be down to the self appointed Hitler with the whistle, I've come across far too many who tell their linos just to flag for throw ins and offside, everything else is down to the ref.........and that's where another problem starts, reffing as though they are the entertainment rather than the players and the game.

I couldn't agree more a Rob, but my major point was the criticism of players for cheating that get my goat. If both players claim a throw in for their team the ref will still ignore them and, with his assistant, give the throw to the team who's it is. If a player dives deliberately a good ref will caution him. It's not seen by football generally, as cheating, as similar situations in golf would be and that's because football has three people charged with upholding the rules - it isn't down to the players to do that, but If they don't they suffer the consequences of their actions.

 

[Robobum]

I couldn't agree more a Rob, but my major point was the criticism of players for cheating that get my goat. If both players claim a throw in for their team the ref will still ignore them and, with his assistant, give the throw to the team who's it is. If a player dives deliberately a good ref will caution him. It's not seen by football generally, as cheating, as similar situations in golf would be and that's because football has three people charged with upholding the rules - it isn't down to the players to do that, but If they don't they suffer the consequences of their actions.

No arguments from me Chris - for the purpose of this thread anyway, screaming at Refs was (sadly) a big part of my game!!

 

[chrisd]

, screaming at Refs was (sadly) a big part of my game!!

As all of us Rob!

An ex local ref during my playing days is now a barman at my golf club and we often banter about the old days and he was certainly one of the better refs at that time. I was in the bar with a couple of ex footballers and he announced that the last game of mine he reff'd I was the worst player on the pitch and all I could say was "that would be too much of a coincidence" !

I remember one game with him where I berated him over a decision and he called me over for a rollicking and I said " look Peter, we both can't ref this game properly and I'm trying to play as well, any chance of you getting some decisions right it'd take the pressure off me helping you"

I only ever got booked once and the banter was dished out and taken in good spirit

 

[Robobum]

I preferred the Kevin Nolan approach to discipline - ensured Xmas off from playing and the chance for a beer or twelve.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The big money win at all costs idea is a complete red herring made up by those that have no idea about the game.

These guys want to win - end of. If it was in your back garden vs you and your wife, in the neighbours league 4th division, they would want to win and would do what is necessary to do so.

So it's pure coincidence that diving, cheating and general haranguing of the ref have increased since the advent of Sky TV and the big money, despite there being pretty much the same trophies available for these guys who only want to win now as there were before? Obviously the blokes I was watching 35 years ago just didn't want to win as they didn't seem to indulge in the same behaviour.

I don't disagree that the players have a winning mentality and will try to gain every advantage, but if you don't think that a £10 million bonus for winning the Champions League or £15 million for winning the Premier League (and that's not including the TV money) have some bearing on the player's attitude, if not from themselves then handed down by club management or coaching staff, then I'm afraid you have as little idea as you accuse me of having. There are other factors involved such as the change in society's attitudes to what is acceptable and money is not the sole driver, but I do not believe you can completely dismiss the influence money has had on the modern game.

 

[Robobum]

So it's pure coincidence that diving, cheating and general haranguing of the ref have increased since the advent of Sky TV and the big money, despite there being pretty much the same trophies available for these guys who only want to win now as there were before? Obviously the blokes I was watching 35 years ago just didn't want to win as they didn't seem to indulge in the same behaviour.

I don't disagree that the players have a winning mentality and will try to gain every advantage, but if you don't think that a £10 million bonus for winning the Champions League or £15 million for winning the Premier League (and that's not including the TV money) have some bearing on the player's attitude, if not from themselves then handed down by club management or coaching staff, then I'm afraid you have as little idea as you accuse me of having. There are other factors involved such as the change in society's attitudes to what is acceptable and money is not the sole driver, but I do not believe you can completely dismiss the influence money has had on the modern game.

Ok, so lets say a club wins both - £25m prize money. How much of that will reach the players? Lets be generous and say 50%...

£12.5m between 25 players. Add in some big player weighting and lets say his bonus is £1m.....

£1m for a player that already earns £5-6m a year on a long contract which is worth £30m+.

Money is no driver for the top players. It's a consequence.

Money becomes a driver the lower you go, hence the susceptibility to match fixing as we have seen recently.

 

[Beezerk]

I love refs me.

 

[bladeplayer]

Maybe part of the problem is that football has long since ceased to be a game at the top level. It is a multi-million pound business, and I'm sure that has some bearing on the win-at-all-costs mentality which I think has some bearing on the player's actions.

Very valid point mate so a way has got to be devised that constant cheating effects the business .. points deductions seems the only way to effect this so .. fines are so small they dont matter