Refereeing, again.

[ger147]

Actually it wasn't - Fowler jumped over an on rushing Seaman and Seaman caught his legs - Fowler got up and gestured it wasn't a pen but ref gave him - Fowler then missed the pen

It was an act of sportsmanship rarely seen in the sport

Fowler dived, there was no contact. He then tried to score the pen, Seaman saved but Liverpool scored the rebound. Not exactly a Nobel prize for Sportmanship nominee.

http://youtu.be/8mofSgbY8JE

 

[Slime]

Actually it wasn't - Fowler jumped over an on rushing Seaman and Seaman caught his legs - Fowler got up and gestured it wasn't a pen but ref gave him - Fowler then missed the pen

It was an act of sportsmanship rarely seen in the sport

Which brings me back to an earlier point ..................... interpretation.
The interpretation of that incident is by no means universally agreed upon.
Many think he dived, and badly too as contact is arguable, and realising he'd be found out he waved his hands around feigning honesty. Most people also think that he missed the penalty deliberately, but it was just a bad penalty, and yet some people still think he deliberately missed it.
It's all about interpretation, myopia and rose tinted glasses.
Only Fowler really knows ................... and all non Liverpool supporters .


Slime.

 

[Fish]

Doesn't change the fact that almost all pro golfers desperately want to win but behave honestly where as many pro footballers who also desperately want to win do not behave honestly. Cheating in football is the norm.

Is there a difference between cheating and deceiving?

When a keeper comes rushing out diving low at the ball, and in that split second, so hardly premeditated which is the act of a cheat, the oncoming player chooses to keep his feet low allowing the keeper to make contact before or after the ball has gone and wins a penalty rather than lifting his feet and jumping over the keeper which he had the possibility of doing? Is that cheating? Is it deception? Is it just tough on the keeper and team being able to manipulate the situation in that split second to your advantage, rightly or wrongly?

 

[Robobum]

Doesn't change the fact that almost all pro golfers desperately want to win but behave honestly where as many pro footballers who also desperately want to win do not behave honestly. Cheating in football is the norm.

The original point was that it was due to the big money - it's not, these guys just want to win and will push things as far as they can.

 

[ger147]

The original point was that it was due to the big money - it's not, these guys just want to win and will push things as far as they can.

I agree as far as big money is concerned. After all you have kids and guys my age diving about public parks every Saturday morning.

 

[ger147]

Is there a difference between cheating and deceiving?

When a keeper comes rushing out diving low at the ball, and in that split second, so hardly premeditated which is the act of a cheat, the oncoming player chooses to keep his feet low allowing the keeper to make contact before or after the ball has gone and wins a penalty rather than lifting his feet and jumping over the keeper which he had the possibility of doing? Is that cheating? Is it deception? Is it just tough on the keeper and team being able to manipulate the situation in that split second to your advantage, rightly or wrongly?

When you decide to dive at every opportunity that presents itself during the upcoming fixture in the dressing room before the game begins, you are a cheat.

 

[Fish]

When you decide to dive at every opportunity that presents itself during the upcoming fixture in the dressing room before the game begins, you are a cheat.

So had Fowler buried his feet into Seamans arms or chest after he touched the ball to the side and didn't go over him doing a hitch kick which a lot of players now do in mid-air, would that have been a justified penalty, most pundits seem to think so even though the player could have leaped over the keeper?

 

[Robobum]

When you decide to dive at every opportunity that presents itself during the upcoming fixture in the dressing room before the game begins, you are a cheat.

That's just not the case

 

[Fish]

When you decide to dive at every opportunity that presents itself during the upcoming fixture in the dressing room before the game begins, you are a cheat.

I'm not sure how you can quantify or justify that statement or knowingly know that players think that way.

 

[MegaSteve]

Said it before...

I am sure when I was a lad you got awarded a penalty nowadays you 'win' a penalty...

 

[ger147]

So had Fowler buried his feet into Seamans arms or chest after he touched the ball to the side and didn't go over him doing a hitch kick which a lot of players now do in mid-air, would that have been a justified penalty, most pundits seem to think so even though the player could have leaped over the keeper?[/]

If he was brought down in the box it should be a penalty. He was not, he dived.

 

[Fish]

If he was brought down in the box it would have been a penalty. He was not, he dived.

Your avoiding the question, I said, HAD Fowler or any player as per my previous example, buried their feet into the keeper when they had/have the opportunity to leap over, is that a penalty or not, the keeper technically hasn't brought the player down, the player has kept his feet low to allow himself to fall into the oncoming keeper, is that cheating, deceiving or taking advantage?

 

[ger147]

Your avoiding the question, I said, HAD Fowler or any player as per my previous example, buried their feet into the keeper when they had/have the opportunity to leap over, is that a penalty or not, the keeper technically hasn't brought the player down, the player has kept his feet low to allow himself to fall into the oncoming keeper, is that cheating, deceiving or taking advantage?

If you are brought down it's a penalty, if you dive it's not. If you don't think that's an answer that's your problem, not mines.

 

[Robobum]

If you are brought down it's a penalty, if you dive it's not. If you don't think that's an answer that's your problem, not mines.

If that's what you think, it's a good job you aren't a ref!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Fowler dived, there was no contact. He then tried to score the pen, Seaman saved but Liverpool scored the rebound. Not exactly a Nobel prize for Sportmanship nominee.

http://youtu.be/8mofSgbY8JE

He jumped over out of the way and then says no penalty - did he claim for a penalty - I do believe the answer is no

But it obvious there is no point people in football attempting sportsmanship when even obvious attempts get questioned

I do believe Wenger congratulated him , the Prem did by giving Him a sportsmanship award. Seaman also congratulated him - why is there a need to question anything ?

 

[doublebogey7]

Local leagues often run without proper refs and the games get played. I wouldn't get out of bed to be sworn at by some oiks on a Sunday morning but refs should all agree to send off players when they deserve it but there is so much inconsistency in refereeing that it'll never happen

In Premier league football, I never understand why the FA don't approach lower division players and train them and pay them well to referee, it's worked well in cricket with umpires, a good player will usually spot the bad tackle etc more than someone who's never played the game

There have been such initiatives by the FA but surprise surprise players are not keen to take the offer up.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So had Fowler buried his feet into Seamans arms or chest after he touched the ball to the side and didn't go over him doing a hitch kick which a lot of players now do in mid-air, would that have been a justified penalty, most pundits seem to think so even though the player could have leaped over the keeper?[/]

If he was brought down in the box it should be a penalty. He was not, he dived.

Actually he neither "dived" nor was brought down - there is more than just those two possibilities

 

[Robobum]

There have been such initiatives by the FA but surprise surprise players are not keen to take the offer up.

It was a bit half arsed though and they targeted ageing players close to career end. By the time they were ready it would have been a five year career.
If you target guys released by pro clubs after a first contract. Fit young men, enticed by a definite career path to the £100k elite refs panel. The linos need to be on this too - they are an even weaker link in the current chain

 

[doublebogey7]

Glad you agree Rob!

I refereed a few older kids games a number of years ago and whilst I was iffy on some of the rules I didn't miss any bad tackles, pushes etc that anyone, like you who played at a better level than me, would also spot in an instance. To get to the top in refereeing you do, these days, need to start pretty young and that precludes refs from playing.

How do you know, did Shearer, Hanson, etc get to view the video.

 

[Robobum]

How do you know, did Shearer, Hanson, etc get to view the video.

Steve Shearer and Dave Hanson both watched the game live and said Chris was impeccable

Although the 2nd half was hard to judge from the bar after 4 pints of Bishops Cripplecock.