Radical thoughts for the WHS article

[Deleted member 30522]

My thoughts.
Putting a card in for every round just isn't in our DNA in this country.

All of your post, but especially this, is spot on.

Year one of WHS I put in 4 GP cards, they were all counting, because it's just not the same as the "pressure" of competition, 2022 I put in zero GP cards, and unlikely I ever will again.

It's a plus for the guys who don't want to play medals, and at my home club, those are basically 90% of the GP cards going in, but from the competition players, almost no-one is submitting GP cards.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

The author of that article has written previous similar rants slagging off the WHS both pre and post implementation.

The moment I read...

That it’s not performing as it should in the UK stares us all in the face in every golf club competition. Outlandish scores in club and open events are not apocryphal. They are not aberrations. They are the norm.

...I dismissed the rest of the article as tubthumping claptrap.

He's very defensive on twitter about it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620698460520599553

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But as per my post earlier in the thread ‘most likely score’ is fraught with other issues.

Especially when scoring for a previous president as you play with him on one of his courses. As he picks up a putt you know is for a 7 he says “put me down for a 4“.

 

[nickjdavis]

He's very defensive on twitter about it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620698460520599553

He's just the golfing equivalent of Laura Kuenssberg.

 

[timd77]

Could never happen. For me personally, I play a comp every weekend and so that score always goes onto whs/eg (apart from during winter, assume that’s the norm, non quals).

April-September when it’s lighter later, I’ll play after work, but that’s generally a quick matchplay with my pal, occasionally we’ll play stableford and stick a score in, but normally we’re rushing the round, not holing out so that we’ve got time for a beer afterwards and still get back home at a reasonable time.

Golf’s meant to be fun for us, not another job!

 

[Captain_Black.]

I play a comp every w/end April - Nov
If it's a singles, I'll put a card in
Nov - April is not conducive to good golf in my opinion, so I don't play qualifiers during this period.
I occasionally play a mid-week Seniors comp, again if it's a singles comp, I'll put in a card.
All other times, I play in roll ups & bounce games with my mates, £2 winner takes all & a beer afterwards.
Good social fun golf, which I can try different shots & have a bit of fun.
Not the sort of games I'd wanting to put a card in for.

 

[Jigger]

Whilst accepting that having a handicap which reflects your current playing ability is important to protect the integrity of competitions, golf is also supposed to be fun. If it was ever mandated that a card had to be submitted for every round, I’m sure the majority would fail to see the fun in that.

We play pairs match-play more often than not to keep the flow as a 4 ball so it wouldn’t work for us. I also recall a recent break 75 episode Rick shield did with Iona Stephen’s and she said she hadn’t marked a card for about 3 years.

 

[IanM]

When the Wednesday Seniors Roll up became qualifying, a large group stopped playing in it. They said two qualifying comps a week was plenty!

 

[mikejohnchapman]

And.....no gimmies. Everybody would have to putt out every hole. That would kill a lot of people who almost never putt out.

Well I'm not sure the golfing gods agree with you. It won't be long before 4BBB rounds will be acceptable for handicap (already do so in the USA) with gimmies included under the most likely score provision. Matchplay will also be acceptable for handicap purposes - providing the trial in Ireland goes well. All part of the great WHS framework!

 

[D-S]

Well I'm not sure the golfing gods agree with you. It won't be long before 4BBB rounds will be acceptable for handicap (already do so in the USA) with gimmies included under the most likely score provision. Matchplay will also be acceptable for handicap purposes - providing the trial in Ireland goes well. All part of the great WHS framework!

And will probably be the end of handicap golf as we know it (for evidence see US of A)

 

[Golfnut1957]

And will probably be the end of handicap golf as we know it (for evidence see US of A)

Don't be so sure. The assumption is that just because EG toe the line and allow HI adjustments from 4BBB, matchplay etc all golfers will change the habits of a lifetime and suddenly start submitting cards for every round regardless of format.
If looking at the numerous threads on here relating to this subject is indicative of the views of the average golfer, then the average UK golfer is just going to carry on doing what the average UK golfer has always done which is submit cards for medals, medal formats and GP rounds that follow medal formats, and when they want to they will play friendly, cardless golf. This is the current mindset.

See the current thread. https://forums.golfmonthly.com/thre...turning-me-into-a-bandit.114155/#post-2597503

 

[D-S]

Don't be so sure. The assumption is that just because EG toe the line and allow HI adjustments from 4BBB, matchplay etc all golfers will change the habits of a lifetime and suddenly start submitting cards for every round regardless of format.
If looking at the numerous threads on here relating to this subject is indicative of the views of the average golfer, then the average UK golfer is just going to carry on doing what the average UK golfer has always done which is submit cards for medals, medal formats and GP rounds that follow medal formats, and when they want to they will play friendly, cardless golf. This is the current mindset.

See the current thread. https://forums.golfmonthly.com/thre...turning-me-into-a-bandit.114155/#post-2597503

However if you follow the US model, it is mandatory to submit every round so players will be obliged to do so, no choice in the matter. Hence my comment.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

However if you follow the US model, it is mandatory to submit every round so players will be obliged to do so, no choice in the matter. Hence my comment.

Sorry, I agree with GN1957, people will just ignore it, "mandatory" or not. It fundamentally changes how we play golf in this country, even moreso for those who don't have a handicap, which is the majority.

 

[Crow]

However if you follow the US model, it is mandatory to submit every round so players will be obliged to do so, no choice in the matter. Hence my comment.

What would happen to all the golfers who neglected to submit every round?

Would they be ostracised from the sport and every golf club in the country, or would the WHS or whoever be powerless to do anything?

 

[peld]

havent read the whole thread but....

What i'd like to see is more courses having a winter rating and therefore more scores being put in through the winter, especially on courses without winter greens, even if they somehow get rated a bit lower (especially clubs that are active in the winter)

My last card, probably like many, was back in October. My HCI is 11.5. Since the new year, in the scores i tracked during our winter league, i have shot +2, +2, +3, +9. Yes the courses are shorter, greens softer and slower etc, but i think there should be some reflection of peoples performance. Even if winter scores are "half weighted" or something.

(Also goes to a few guys who sandbag thier handicap in summer to then get loads of shots on the Winter League knowing it wont get reduced)

 

[D-S]

What would happen to all the golfers who neglected to submit every round?

Would they be ostracised from the sport and every golf club in the country, or would the WHS or whoever be powerless to do anything?

In the US, players who are not seen to ‘post‘ every round are seen as ‘sandbaggers’ i.e. bandits - it is the blatant sign of someone trying to manipulate their handicap.
In those jurisdictions it is a, well understood by all, obligation of the player to post all rounds and therefore a duty of the committee to ensure they do by whatever means possible. (so and so played x times this week and he has not returned a card - so let’s get his playing partners to show us his score and we will get it posted etc.etc.)
Of course this is easily done in well run clubs and not at all possible at other venues. This leads to a vast discrepancy in accuracy in handicapping.
As I pointed, out following WHS to its logical conclusion, which is the US model upon which it was based, will mean the end of handicap golf as we know it.

 

[Imurg]

Well I'm not sure the golfing gods agree with you. It won't be long before 4BBB rounds will be acceptable for handicap (already do so in the USA) with gimmies included under the most likely score provision. Matchplay will also be acceptable for handicap purposes - providing the trial in Ireland goes well. All part of the great WHS framework!

I've always had an issue with matchplay being used for handicaps....and I hope it doesn't come into force here....
At an Old Pharts vs Whippersnappers gig a few years back, I partnered a now ex- forumer in the 4bbb.
I contributed nothing...Zero...not a sausage....not even a putt for a half.....
How can a display like that be used to determine a handicap..?
How can a "most likely score" be generated from playing 1/4 of a round..?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

What would happen to all the golfers who neglected to submit every round?

Would they be ostracised from the sport and every golf club in the country, or would the WHS or whoever be powerless to do anything?

Then the circling drone will use face recognition to identify the person who dares to play a round without registering and immediately assign an automatic penalty to their playing record.

Third occurrence will result in a hellfire missile taking them out as they leave the course.

Problem solved!

 

[Bdill93]

I've always had an issue with matchplay being used for handicaps....and I hope it doesn't come into force here....
At an Old Pharts vs Whippersnappers gig a few years back, I partnered a now ex- forumer in the 4bbb.
I contributed nothing...Zero...not a sausage....not even a putt for a half.....
How can a display like that be used to determine a handicap..?
How can a "most likely score" be generated from playing 1/4 of a round..?

It feels to me like they want a handicap to reflect a players golfing ability on any given day of the year and any scenario.

The argument against match play cards seems to be "trying something wild" etc (which I believe is totally valid btw) but I suppose, the better you are as a golfer, the less of these shots you play no matter what the format?

Example - 150 out but on the wrong fairway with trees blocking you off - an 18 handicapper could go under or over the trees for his "hero shot" - a scratch golfer is probably hitting a standard 9-8 iron. There's less "hero" in the shot for him.

There will always be exceptions to the rule, but if you've had a bad day in match play how can you argue that if it was stroke play you'd have done better? You're still teeing off on every hole with the aim to get your lowest possible score? Even if you get a shot on the hole but you PP doesn't?

I suppose actually now I've delved into it, you might play for a bogey on a par 3 if you're the only player in the 4 ball who gets a shot.. Might leave a chip short rather than attacking a pin knowing being down in 2 is fine as all the other players missed the green and are on in 2 too?

Pretty complex this I agree - don't include match play!

 

[WGCRider]

What would happen to all the golfers who neglected to submit every round?

Would they be ostracised from the sport and every golf club in the country, or would the WHS or whoever be powerless to do anything?

Actually it might not be the worst idea that every round is automatically reflected on your handicap record - even if you choose not to submit your card afterwards. Many people posting here seem to just play a few rounds for the "lols" between "serious" rounds. If you saw that someone had played 10 "practice" rounds since their last card vs someone who has submitted their last 10 cards you'd be able to form an opinion on that person and the validity of their handicap.