Racism

[sunshine]

Never. We don't seem to have the same problem with racism up here as there appears to be down South. We have a fairly large proportion of Asian descent in Dundee due to the jute industry way back, and a large population of Eastern European workers who have come here to help on the farms, a fair number who have stayed on and got full time employment.

I often notice you refer to down south, and i'm never sure what you mean by this. Given that you live in Perthshire (according to your avatar), I'm guessing 99% of the population of the UK lives south of you! Do you mean the south of Scotland, or 99% of the UK, or something else?

Incidentally, according to last census, 92% of Scotland is white British (v 80% in England). When I have been to Scotland (not Dundee, mainly Edinburgh) I have definitely noticed it is less diverse and seen racist incidents.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

If you weren't a mod I'd correct that to "Oh you realist" for you.

There's a certain schoolteacher-like tone to the responses that suggest to me that the new poster's heart isn't quite in it...

Well I can assure you that my heart is most definitely in it!

Not all racism, in golf clubs or anywhere else, is always obvious but with some it's never far away.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Well I can assure you that my heart is most definitely in it!

Not all racism, in golf clubs or anywhere else, is always obvious but with some it's never far away.

I was referring to the OP, who pauldj42 had mentioned in the post which patricks148 quoted and that I suggested I might modify. I wasn't referring to anything you'd posted.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

With the preponderance of middle class, middle aged, white males amongst the membership of golf clubs I would be surprised if the number of racist comments wasn't higher than the norm in society as a whole.

(Speaking as an older, middle class, white guy)

If you/me/the man on the moon are racists, then we would probably be around “like minded” people and not recognise some comments or remarks as racist.?‍

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We've had numerous eastern European staff members from cleaners to kitchen staff and to be fair the club wouldn't have functioned at the time without them. They all worked hard and were an asset and I never heard anyone make racist or derogatory comments. Similarly we have a number of members of Asian descent and all fit in and as far as I'm aware haven't had any issues. One plays in a large roll up group and will give and take in terms of banter and again no-one has overstepped the mark.

 

[SatchFan]

White socks. What's wrong with black socks?

 

[RT1200]

I'm not disputing that racism will exist in golf clubs, the question was if we have experienced it, heard or seen it. I've been lucky in that I have not.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear you have had a bad experience. It must be horrible, there is no excuse for it. Has it put you off golf, is that the point of the thread?

Thank you for your understanding. I stopped playing golf for nearly a year because of this.

 

[Mark1751]

I have seen and heard racism both on the course and in the club house, I now tend to not get involved and challenge anymore as I have done in the past and it’s not always ended civil . I am white, my wife Indian and over time I have just grown to accept that there will be some people that will just not like you. We’ve had comments from all race’s who have a dislike of mixed race couples.
I hear, see and receive more racist abuse and accusations of being a racist while at work (high street bank manager) than I have at the golf club/course.

 

[gazrow]

I have seen and heard racism both on the course and in the club house, I now tend to not get involved and challenge anymore as I have done in the past and it’s not always ended civil . I am white, my wife Indian and over time I have just grown to accept that there will be some people that will just not like you. We’ve had comments from all race’s who have a dislike of mixed race couples.
I hear, see and receive more racist abuse and accusations of being a racist while at work (high street bank manager) than I have at the golf club/course.

This is sad to see. I’m white and my wife is Indian and in 10 years we’ve never experienced anything negative - I’m sorry that you have Mark

 

[Backache]

I have never heard any racist comments at my club, but I guess nowhere is impervious to it, though of the committee members I have known I do feel that if any racism was brought to their attention it would be taken seriously.

 

[RT1200]

I have seen and heard racism both on the course and in the club house, I now tend to not get involved and challenge anymore as I have done in the past and it’s not always ended civil . I am white, my wife Indian and over time I have just grown to accept that there will be some people that will just not like you. We’ve had comments from all race’s who have a dislike of mixed race couples.
I hear, see and receive more racist abuse and accusations of being a racist while at work (high street bank manager) than I have at the golf club/course.

This is awful. We must not allow this to happen unchallenged.

 

[Diamond]

Regarding the OPs original post.
I am new to golf so I am yet to find out. However in social clubs/pubs, which I have frequented for all 43 years of my life I have come across racism, sexism, bigotry, ageism...basically you name it I have heard it. Why would golf be any different?

My wife is black and my daughter is mixed race which I am now being told by the media is dual heritage. She is 16 and she said what wrong with mixed race, I said I dunno you’re my daughter.

When I first met my wife I would notice people staring but that was normal in what is a northern town and not inner city. The worst racism I have come across was when we visited Rome 10 years ago. My wife will never go back to Italy again. To have a 60 year old woman looking at her as if she was a whore whilst in St Paul’s Cathedral was just sickening.

What I have found is that most people use racist terms when they think they can get away with it.

The op asked about what have we done when we have heard it. Well I have said nothing, I have pulled people up and I have nearly caused a mass brawl. All of this was when I was with white men only. For me it shows they lack intelligence or/and are after a reaction.

I studied at university back in the 90s and a lecturer once made the comment and said everyone is racist. Controversial statement to say the least in front of a mixed race/religion group of students. He had a point to a certain extent, bias is everywhere and everyone has an opinion on everything but people who have received racism hate being told they are racist themselves.

A lot of it gets lost in banter, only a bit of banter, which is fine and can be a laugh or we think it is a laugh but maybe not for everyone.

The banter from the tribalism of football is a current topic. Yes people have said they have missed it but the majority of people I have spoken to haven’t missed it at all. In fact the pubs prior to lockdown were rammed and there were no arguments about football or any sport and with not sport on tv the music was cranked up. Not great For covid but a great point that life can be better without kids being paid £500k a week to dance round handbags and people spend 24/7 banging on about which overpwid team has the players with the best hair cut.

So when is banter just not on? I don’t know the answer as it affects everyone differently but I do believe some people are struggle mentally by it.

Again football is a good starting point for racism in the workplace. I have often said to my wife that there has to be more BAME owners, who in turn employ BAME managers.

Regarding the recent protests I can have empathy, try to understand and say openly I understand. But unless you are BAME you can’t it’s simply not possible.

Politics is something I dont get involved in but having a 73 year old in charge of any country has to be wrong. In fact the people building any country and making decisions should surely be the young 20-30 year olds. They have more of their future at stake which means there is more chance for them to be righteous. If you want experience read some history books.

As for me I have said I hate united fans since I was a kid, the Scots hate England, so in in turn I try my best to hate them but they are that crap at sport and I have made some fantastic mates through work who are Scots, it makes it very hard. So that gets put into the banter category which I touched on earlier and probably upsets some people To the point of anxiety tablet.

I don’t really get the LGBT thing but I am not against it. I think any social media account has been swamped with things like LGBT and things like Vegan foods for that long I am immune to the posts.

if I can be a straight white guy that likes womens bums and boobs and eat mutton stew without getting any grief then I am happy for a quiet life...I would even be willing to stop calling my daughter a big girls blouse.

 

[RT1200]

I have never heard any racist comments at my club, but I guess nowhere is impervious to it, though of the committee members I have known I do feel that if any racism was brought to their attention it would be taken seriously.

I thought I could trust the management committee of the club to hear my complaint about obscene racist comments fairly. Sadly, they dismissed my complaint and criticised me for making the complaint.

 

[Backache]

I thought I could trust the management committee of the club to hear my complaint about obscene racist comments fairly. Sadly, they dismissed my complaint and criticised me for making the complaint.

I'm very sad to hear that and it reflects very poorly on your club.

 

[RT1200]

Regarding the OPs original post.
I am new to golf so I am yet to find out. However in social clubs/pubs, which I have frequented for all 43 years of my life I have come across racism, sexism, bigotry, ageism...basically you name it I have heard it. Why would golf be any different?

My wife is black and my daughter is mixed race which I am now being told by the media is dual heritage. She is 16 and she said what wrong with mixed race, I said I dunno you’re my daughter.

When I first met my wife I would notice people staring but that was normal in what is a northern town and not inner city. The worst racism I have come across was when we visited Rome 10 years ago. My wife will never go back to Italy again. To have a 60 year old woman looking at her as if she was a whore whilst in St Paul’s Cathedral was just sickening.

What I have found is that most people use racist terms when they think they can get away with it.

The op asked about what have we done when we have heard it. Well I have said nothing, I have pulled people up and I have nearly caused a mass brawl. All of this was when I was with white men only. For me it shows they lack intelligence or/and are after a reaction.

I studied at university back in the 90s and a lecturer once made the comment and said everyone is racist. Controversial statement to say the least in front of a mixed race/religion group of students. He had a point to a certain extent, bias is everywhere and everyone has an opinion on everything but people who have received racism hate being told they are racist themselves.

A lot of it gets lost in banter, only a bit of banter, which is fine and can be a laugh or we think it is a laugh but maybe not for everyone.

The banter from the tribalism of football is a current topic. Yes people have said they have missed it but the majority of people I have spoken to haven’t missed it at all. In fact the pubs prior to lockdown were rammed and there were no arguments about football or any sport and with not sport on tv the music was cranked up. Not great For covid but a great point that life can be better without kids being paid £500k a week to dance round handbags and people spend 24/7 banging on about which overpwid team has the players with the best hair cut.

So when is banter just not on? I don’t know the answer as it affects everyone differently but I do believe some people are struggle mentally by it.

Again football is a good starting point for racism in the workplace. I have often said to my wife that there has to be more BAME owners, who in turn employ BAME managers.

Regarding the recent protests I can have empathy, try to understand and say openly I understand. But unless you are BAME you can’t it’s simply not possible.

Politics is something I dont get involved in but having a 73 year old in charge of any country has to be wrong. In fact the people building any country and making decisions should surely be the young 20-30 year olds. They have more of their future at stake which means there is more chance for them to be righteous. If you want experience read some history books.

As for me I have said I hate united fans since I was a kid, the Scots hate England, so in in turn I try my best to hate them but they are that crap at sport and I have made some fantastic mates through work who are Scots, it makes it very hard. So that gets put into the banter category which I touched on earlier and probably upsets some people To the point of anxiety tablet.

I don’t really get the LGBT thing but I am not against it. I think any social media account has been swamped with things like LGBT and things like Vegan foods for that long I am immune to the posts.

if I can be a straight white guy that likes womens bums and boobs and eat mutton stew without getting any grief then I am happy for a quiet life...I would even be willing to stop calling my daughter a big girls blouse.

You shouldn't have to tolerate racism. "A person should be judged by the content of their character, not the colour of their skin."

 

[RT1200]

You shouldn't have to tolerate racism. "A person should be judged by the content of their character, not the colour of their skin."

 

[RT1200]

I'm very sad to hear that and it reflects very poorly on your club.

Many of the members are very nice, supportive people who deserve better from their management committee. However, they don't want controversy and prefer a quiet life. So how can the management committee of the club be held to account?

 

[Diamond]

You shouldn't have to tolerate racism. "A person should be judged by the content of their character, not the colour of their skin."

Totally agree but there are a lot of people that don’t in all walks of life.

 

[Diamond]

Many of the members are very nice, supportive people who deserve better from their management committee. However, they don't want controversy and prefer a quiet life. So how can the management committee of the club be held to account?

Sounds like the committee don’t deserve your custom or money.

 

[RT1200]

Sounds like the committee don’t deserve your custom or money.

I agree and that is why I left. But I shouldn't have had to do this. This is why I am interested to find out if the problem is widespread.