Quick poll on your new handicap index

[Foxholer]

It’s not technically cheating though.
Putting in bad scores is just morally wrong.
The system allows them to do it ,

Please explain how you diferentiate 'morally wrong' from 'cheating' - 'technically' or otherwise!
Putting in (genuine) bad scores is not morally wrong/cheating! Imo, it's totally legit and actually obligatory - as, while it 'only' 'self-harms' for Singles, it would also affect Partner(s) in Pairs etc.
Putting in 'non-genuine' bad scores - in order to manipulate HI upwards - is definitely cheating!

 

[fenwayrich]

CONGU 10.8
WHS 10.7
Course slope 120
Playing handicap 13.

Category 3 for first time in 45 years. Or have categories been scrapped ?

Forgive me for asking, but how do you get to a Playing Handicap of 13 with an index of 10.7 and a slope of 120?

 

[richart]

Forgive me for asking, but how do you get to a Playing Handicap of 13 with an index of 10.7 and a slope of 120?

No idea !! Just put in the figures to computer.

Our par is 69, but course index is 70.2 I put my figures into course up the road from me that has a slope Of 125,par 72, index 71.2 and I came out at 11.

Very confusing !

 

[BubbaP]

No idea !! Just put in the figures to computer.

Our par is 69, but course index is 70.2 I put my figures into course up the road from me that has a slope Of 125,par 72, index 71.2 and I came out at 11.

Very confusing !

Think you need to choose the "without..." option
https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem

 

[AmandaJR]

Is there any direct correlation between exact HI and Course Handicap. At 6.4 I get 8 shots but would 6.5 give me 9 or is it not as simple as that?

 

[BubbaP]

Is there any direct correlation between exact HI and Course Handicap. At 6.4 I get 8 shots but would 6.5 give me 9 or is it not as simple as that?

Think it would depend on slope, maybe if around 150

 

[Foxholer]

Is there any direct correlation between exact HI and Course Handicap. At 6.4 I get 8 shots but would 6.5 give me 9 or is it not as simple as that?

Amanda. My calc gives Course Handicap of 9 - all the way down to 6.1!

Off Reds (Slope 133; CR=75.3; Par 74) Calc is...CH= (HI*Slope/115 + CR-Par) Rounded. so 6.4*133/115 +75.3-74 rounded = 9.

And No, not that simple - but still 'related'. The rounding happens AFTER the calculation, not before.

 

[jim8flog]

No idea !! Just put in the figures to computer.

Our par is 69, but course index is 70.2 I put my figures into course up the road from me that has a slope Of 125,par 72, index 71.2 and I came out at 11.

Very confusing !

Are you using a program based upon the American System?

Course Rating is irrelevant when converting HI to Course Handicap in the UK

it is simply (HI * slope / 113)

 

[AmandaJR]

Amanda. My calc gives Course Handicap of 9 - all the way down to 6.1!

Off Reds (Slope 133; CR=75.3; Par 74) Calc is...CH= (HI*Slope/115 + CR-Par) Rounded. so 6.4*133/115 +75.3-74 rounded = 9.

And No, not that simple - but still 'related'. The rounding happens AFTER the calculation, not before.

Par is 75 which may explain why I get 8 on the England Golf calculator?

 

[AmandaJR]

Think it would depend on slope, maybe if around 150

Think it's 133. Was thinking of putting in a supp card on Monday as quite fancy 9

 

[BubbaP]

Think it's 133. Was thinking of putting in a supp card on Monday as quite fancy 9

I think slope may need to be higher than that. You can play here
https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem
Think it's the "without" option

 

[Foxholer]

Par is 75 which may explain why I get 8 on the England Golf calculator?

It would indeed!
Would seem that a correction to this resource is required....https://ncrdb.usga.org/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=21993

 

[Foxholer]

I think slope may need to be higher than that. You can play here
https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem
Think it's the "without" option

Er..I believe it's the 'With Par' option.
USGA system uses CR and Index (only). WHS adds Par - and was seen as 'wrong' by Dean Knuth, who created the Slope system.
See this document...https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth
The discussion re Silloth and Southerness elsewhere seems to confirm it too.

Important Edit: Just read the FULL Knuth document above. It seems GB&I agree with Knuth and have opted out of using CR-Par! If that's truly so, it changes lots! And indeed, it's the 'without' option!

 

[BubbaP]

Er..I believe it's the 'With Par' option.
USGA system uses CR and Index (only). WHS adds Par - and was seen as 'wrong' by Dean Knuth, who created the Slope system.
See this document...https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth
The discussion re Silloth and Southerness elsewhere seems to confirm it too.

Was going by this...
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/world-handicap-system-whs.104054/post-2129749

 

[Foxholer]

Was going by this...
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/world-handicap-system-whs.104054/post-2129749

See my update above!
That also means many of the calcs I've done in the last few days have been suspect/wrong too - so apologies to anyone I've mislead!

 

[clubchamp98]

Please explain how you diferentiate 'morally wrong' from 'cheating' - 'technically' or otherwise!
Putting in (genuine) bad scores is not morally wrong/cheating! Imo, it's totally legit and actually obligatory - as, while it 'only' 'self-harms' for Singles, it would also affect Partner(s) in Pairs etc.
Putting in 'non-genuine' bad scores - in order to manipulate HI upwards - is definitely cheating!

I could go out with Only A putter and shoot 120/150 is that cheating?
I could play every day and do the same thing.
I am sure I would get a few shots back .
But have technically not done anything against the rules.
Extreme example but possible.

 

[Foxholer]

No idea !! Just put in the figures to computer.

Our par is 69, but course index is 70.2 I put my figures into course up the road from me that has a slope Of 125,par 72, index 71.2 and I came out at 11.

Very confusing !

Indeed, you have used a calculator with Course Rating minus Par
WHS allows opt out of that (so just Course Rating) - and that's what England Golf uses (a fact I've only this evening realised).
Use the Without...option in this Calculator https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem and you'll be less confused.

 

[Foxholer]

I could go out with Only A putter and shoot 120/150 is that cheating?
I could play every day and do the same thing.
I am sure I would get a few shots back .
But have technically not done anything against the rules.
Extreme example but possible.

How you do it is unimportant. It's WHY you would do it that's important.

 

[clubchamp98]

How you do it is unimportant. It's WHY you would do it that's important.

You asked me to Differentiate between morally wrong and cheating ,!
That’s what I did.
The system allows them to do it.
Under Congu they would not get more than .7 if they did that every day in a week .
God knows how many shots they would get back under WHS.
But there is or is there a mechanism to stop that?
You obviously havnt met many handicap manipulators.

 

[clubchamp98]

Think it's 133. Was thinking of putting in a supp card on Monday as quite fancy 9

You might play well and come down.