Quick poll on your new handicap index

[harpo_72]

Are you saying that Congu doesn't address...? Or that WHS doesn't the (same) issue?
Congu did attempt to 'automate' the improving golfer issue with the ESR process, but even that was generally 'behind'. A previous club (prior to the ESR clauses) had a fear of members giving the (resort) club a bad name for 'banditry' in corporate events that many members played, so kept a close eye on the various swindles (there were at least 4) and did his own 'cutting' where he felt it necessary.
I've had 2 periods where comp results couldn't keep up with my improvement under Congu - that would likely have still had the problem under WHS. Neither system really handles rapidly changing ability particularly well imo.

Congu didn’t really address and the mechanism I have suggested doesn’t either.. god knows what whs will do, time will tell.

 

[larmen]

You, and other high cappers in particular, need to consider/be aware of Slope as well! At least if you play other courses, particular more difficult ones, as Course (not 'Playing' (though you do specify 'at home') handicap would very likely be different (higher).

Our track is silly easy, par 68 but course ratings 65 and 63, slope 117 and 111. But it’s difficult to get a cut because CSS usually sits around 38 points, I started on 48 handicap but cut 12 strokes in the last few comps, therefore my best 7 (or 6?) out of 11 played are counted only and the awful ones that started me that high are dropped which set me up there in the 1st place.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Currently off 12.1 but new handicap has me at 11.5 so technically unchanged but one good round and closer to single figures

 

[GG26]

CONGU - 19.3
HI - 17.7
With slope of 131 gives me a handicap of 21 on my home course (up 2). However, a comp on 10th October has yet to be processed, which is likely to bring my HI down a small amount giving a course handicap of 20.

 

[Sweep]

Gone up by 0.7 but I expected as much as I have had some shocking results over the past year or so, particularly following lockdown. All sorted now methinks, but too late for the WHS launch.
That said, I play on a tough course, so whilst this was reflected in my handicap under CSS, it wasn’t shown in my scores. Under WHS and slope it will be reflected in both, as my course handicap goes up, so I expect to play to my handicap more often, which is more satisfying.
Overall, once we get used to it, I think it will be a better system.

 

[rulefan]

But I suppose it doesn’t address the congu systems inability to keep up with improving golfers.

It is supposed to.

 

[Foxholer]

Currently off 12.1 but new handicap has me at 11.5 so technically unchanged but one good round and closer to single figures

To misquote The Bard (hardly the first to do so)....Vanity. Thy name is Homer!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

pretty much the same. HI of 8.4 - current h/cap is 8.6.

Factor HI for home track slope gives me a home track playing handicap of 9.2. Off whites no adjustment as CR = par. Singles strokeplay (irrespective of medal/stableford) takes 0.46 (5%) off that to give home track playing handicap of 8.74. So when playing my own track in a singles strokeplay comp I go around the houses and end up pretty much exactly where I started ??

Mind you - I haven’t worked out what HI I have to get down to a strokeplay PH of 8 round my own track. It feels like it’s going to be close to 8.0 and feels like it’ll be quite hard to get to that.

 

[harpo_72]

It is supposed to.

I am not sure how it will, is it related to the 8 best scores ? How does it take chunks off your handicap, does it move away from the 0.1,0.2, etc per shot under ?

 

[jim8flog]

I am not sure how it will, is it related to the 8 best scores ? How does it take chunks off your handicap, does it move away from the 0.1,0.2, etc per shot under ?

Say the oldest score of the 20 in your record is 20 and this gets replaced by a 10 last week, 20/8=2.5 and 10/8= 1.25 so that is a 1.25 off your current Handicap Index not a shot off your Handicap index 20 games previously.

 

[harpo_72]

Say the oldest score of the 20 in your record is 20 and this gets replaced by a 10 last week, 20/8=2.5 and 10/8= 1.25 so that is a 1.25 off your current Handicap Index not a shot off your Handicap index 20 games previously.

So it does the big chunks fast, is there no need for extraordinary cuts ?

 

[Ethan]

Are you saying that Congu doesn't address...? Or that WHS doesn't the (same) issue?
Congu did attempt to 'automate' the improving golfer issue with the ESR process, but even that was generally 'behind'. A previous club (prior to the ESR clauses) had a fear of members giving the (resort) club a bad name for 'banditry' in corporate events that many members played, so kept a close eye on the various swindles (there were at least 4) and did his own 'cutting' where he felt it necessary.
I've had 2 periods where comp results couldn't keep up with my improvement under Congu - that would likely have still had the problem under WHS. Neither system really handles rapidly changing ability particularly well imo.

CONGU is anchored to the past handicap more than WHS. ESR is a somewhat clunky way to catch up, but under WHS, when the handicap can be more or less redefined on a ruling 20 round basis, there shouldn't need to be such a lever.

Players can certainly game the system in WHS, though. There used to be a major problem in the big US pro-ams of people who played off a 2 or 3 most of the season pitching up with an 8 or 9 for the big event.

 

[Ethan]

pretty much the same. HI of 8.4 - current h/cap is 8.6.

Factor HI for home track slope gives me a home track playing handicap of 9.2. Off whites no adjustment as CR = par. Singles strokeplay (irrespective of medal/stableford) takes 0.46 (5%) off that to give home track playing handicap of 8.74. So when playing my own track in a singles strokeplay comp I go around the houses and end up pretty much exactly where I started ??

Mind you - I haven’t worked out what HI I have to get down to a strokeplay PH of 8 round my own track. It feels like it’s going to be close to 8.0 and feels like it’ll be quite hard to get to that.

The Playing Handicap is the best comparator for the CONGU. Your CONGU handicap has the difficulty of your home course baked into it. When you calculate the handicap based on average of 8 best differentials, you get the PH right away, then you apply the slope correction to get the HI. A fair few people will see a slight increase in PH vs CONGI because the Course Ratings tend to be a bit higher than typical CSS/SSS. If you have been playing much better/worse than your CONGU handicap lately, may also be some more discrepancy.

 

[jim8flog]

So it does the big chunks fast, is there no need for extraordinary cuts ?

With the WHS they really should be called extra ordinary score reductions you only get them for scores of 7 better than course handicap.

 

[harpo_72]

With the WHS they really should be called extra ordinary score reductions you only get them for scores of 7 better than course handicap.

Oh Jimbo you have confused me now! So what can I expect if I play 2 shots below the course handicap? A 0.4 cut as a cat 2 ..

 

[Foxholer]

Oh Jimbo you have confused me now! So what can I expect if I play 2 shots below the course handicap? A 0.4 cut as a cat 2 ..

That concept will disappear when WHS is implemented!
The whole basis for calculating Handicap (Index) has changed (to 'average of best 8 from last 20')!
It could possibly even increase - if the round 'dropping off' was 'even better'!! That's going to confuse a few folk!

 

[Foxholer]

...
Players can certainly game the system in WHS, though. There used to be a major problem in the big US pro-ams of people who played off a 2 or 3 most of the season pitching up with an 8 or 9 for the big event.

The problem of cheats has, and, always will be, something Golf highlights but doesn't, in itself, 'solve'!

 

[jim8flog]

Players can certainly game the system in WHS, though. There used to be a major problem in the big US pro-ams of people who played off a 2 or 3 most of the season pitching up with an 8 or 9 for the big event.

No longer as easy for a known person

7.2b Other Actions
The Committee in charge of a competition may reserve the right to:
l Adjust the Playing Handicap of an entrant within the Terms of the Competition
where there is evidence that the player’s Handicap Index does not reflect their
demonstrated ability.

 

[rulefan]

No longer as easy for a known person

7.2b Other Actions
The Committee in charge of a competition may reserve the right to:
l Adjust the Playing Handicap of an entrant within the Terms of the Competition
where there is evidence that the player’s Handicap Index does not reflect their
demonstrated ability.

That is a very powerful tool that I would hope to see in more club Opens.

 

[clubchamp98]

The problem of cheats has, and, always will be, something Golf highlights but doesn't, in itself, 'solve'!

It’s not technically cheating though.
Putting in bad scores is just morally wrong.
The system allows them to do it ,