provisional holed

[viscount17]

having sent your first ball out into the cabbage you play a provisional which is holed. is the hole over at that point or is your 'partner' still entitled to find your first?

Is there a difference in the ruling for strokeplay and matchplay?

 

[pbrown7582]

once your provisional is holed thats it hole over and your score with that ball counts, regardless of whether you find your original or not in the mean time.

 

[rosecott]

once your provisional is holed thats it hole over and your score with that ball counts, regardless of whether you find your original or not in the mean time.

Not so. The hole is only over when you remove the ball from the hole. If the original is found before the act of removal, then it is the ball in play. So, get there pronto.

 

[chrisd]

Spot on Rose.

 

[Colin L]

Decision 27-2b/2 is you reference viscount17
There isn't an applicable Rule, so this is an equity decision. I expect the logic is that in any other circumstances your provisional ball is not in play until you do something further like searching for your original for 5 minutes, so in this situation it is also not in play until you do something. It's in the hole, so the only action left is taking it out.

 

[Doh]

OK so you hole your provisional but decide to look for your first ball,you find it and then decide that you will play it. That then becomes the ball in play (am i right so far) so before you putt out can you take your provisional out of the hole without it counting?

 

[Colin L]

OK so you hole your provisional but decide to look for your first ball,you find it and then decide that you will play it. That then becomes the ball in play (am i right so far) so before you putt out can you take your provisional out of the hole without it counting?

I would say no. To my mind, the implication of Decision 27-2b/2 is that picking your provisional out of the hole is an action that puts that ball in play. It is the equivalent of playing your provisional nearer the hole than where your original is likely to be. As soon as you do it, your original is not in play.

An interesting question, but perhaps an academic one. With your provisional ball set to count for a 3, would you really want to look for your original in the expectation of holing out with your recovery shot from the cabbages? Me? I would be up the fairway at maximum speed without a glance at the cabbage patch to get that provisional out the hole before anyone "helpfully" found my original.

 

[User20205]

An interesting question, but perhaps an academic one. With your provisional ball set to count for a 3, would you really want to look for your original in the expectation of holing out with your recovery shot from the cabbages? Me? I would be up the fairway at maximum speed without a glance at the cabbage patch to get that provisional out the hole before anyone "helpfully" found my original.

if someone insisted on looking for the first ball, against your wishes, do they run the risk of disqualification under 33.7, serious breach of etiquette contrary to the spirit of the game ??

 

[MashieNiblick]

OK so you hole your provisional but decide to look for your first ball,you find it and then decide that you will play it. That then becomes the ball in play (am i right so far) so before you putt out can you take your provisional out of the hole without it counting?

I would say no. To my mind, the implication of Decision 27-2b/2 is that picking your provisional out of the hole is an action that puts that ball in play. It is the equivalent of playing your provisional nearer the hole than where your original is likely to be. As soon as you do it, your original is not in play.

Once the original ball is found surely the provisional becomes irrelevant and can be picked up or picked out of the hole.

Decison 27-2b/2 says

"In equity (Rule 1-4) the provisional ball becomes the ball in play as soon as A picks it out of the hole, provided his original ball has not already been found in bounds within five minutes of B starting to search for it."

 

[Imurg]

I think any normal, fair minded golfer wouldn't look for an opponents ball under these circumstances - the guy's just hit a Hole-in-One with a 2nd ball.
Face it, you're not meant to win that hole, concentrate on making par for the half...

If I played with anyone who insisted on looking for my ball in this situation, I'd have my doubts as to whether I'd play with them again.

 

[User20205]

If I played with anyone who insisted on looking for my ball in this situation, I'd have my doubts as to whether I'd play with them again.

definitely, maybe you can't play the spirit of the game card, maybe just the spirit of the game according to me ! (rule 35:thup

everyone knows someone that would relish looking for & finding that ball

 

[MashieNiblick]

if someone insisted on looking for the first ball, against your wishes, do they run the risk of disqualification under 33.7, serious breach of etiquette contrary to the spirit of the game ??

No, decison 27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball makes it clear that in equity your opponent or fellow competitor is entitled to search for your ball. Equally in equity you are entitled to play a stroke from nearer the hole with your provisional. It's a long decision so I won't cut and past it. Link is

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=BD15C1D3-4DC7-4525-B0E6-4A78A4DFB4B1

So it's a question of

"On your marks, get set, GO!"

Tend to agree with Imurg in general but if it was the last hole of the final of a big knock out singles match play comp and the score was all square, I'd probably have quick look for the first one, maybe just 5 minutes or so

 

[chrisd]

No, decison 27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball makes it clear that in equity your opponent or fellow competitor is entitled to search for your ball. Equally in equity you are entitled to play a stroke from nearer the hole with your provisional. It's a long decision so I won't cut and past it. Link is

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=BD15C1D3-4DC7-4525-B0E6-4A78A4DFB4B1

So it's a question of

"On your marks, get set, GO!"

Tend to agree with Imurg in general but if it was the last hole of the final of a big knock out singles match play comp and the score was all square, I'd probably have quick look for the first one, maybe just 5 minutes or so

And if you were playing with me I'd be racing to the hole as fast as my little legs would get me there.

I wouldn't think anything less of you though... all fair in love, war and golf!

 

[CliveW]

OK so you hole your provisional but decide to look for your first ball,you find it and then decide that you will play it. That then becomes the ball in play (am i right so far) so before you putt out can you take your provisional out of the hole without it counting?

I would say yes. If you find the original ball you cannot decide to play it or not, you must play it, and at that point, the provisional is no longer in play.

 

[Colin L]

Once the original ball is found surely the provisional becomes irrelevant and can be picked up or picked out of the hole.

Quite right. I completely misread the question and answered on the misunderstanding that the player picked his ball out the hole and then looked for and found his original ball.

So apologies to Doh for offering the correct answer to a question that was never asked in the first place. Mashieniblick wins the accurate reading prize and of course gives the right answer to the question that was asked. If the original ball is found before any action is taken re the provisional it remains the ball in play and you can pick the provisional out of the hole any time after finding the original. The provisional ball in those circumstances has never been the ball in play.

I will remind myself of the advice I have given to many a pupil in my past: read the question carefully! Maybe write it out 100 times.

 

[MashieNiblick]

And if you were playing with me I'd be racing to the hole as fast as my little legs would get me there.

I wouldn't think anything less of you though... all fair in love, war and golf!

No worries Chris, just checked the Rules and can't see anything specifically outlawing ankle tap tackles

Colin, must admit, given your excellent knowledge of the Rules, I did read the decision a couple of times just to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

I'm really loving this section of the forum!

 

[chrisd]

I'm really loving this section of the forum!

Me too. Would love it even more if I could slap anyone who posts the phrase "not in the spirit of the rule"

 

[DaveM]

"Not in the spirit of the rule" OK OK someone had to do it!

 

[chrisd]

"Not in the spirit of the rule" OK OK someone had to do it!

I've got you in my sights Davey boy!

 

[pbrown7582]

Me too. Would love it even more if I could slap anyone who posts the phrase "not in the spirit of the rule"

Do I get a slap too for answering incorrectly!