potential problem with the new 'flag in' rule !

[garyinderry]

Not sure that proves anything tbh. All the holed putts he hit would’ve gone in the hole if the flag was out. I think the speed of the putt needs to be higher then that to really prove anything, but like I said in another post, anyone who wants to charge a ball that risks going 4ft+ past the hole (if missed) best have a putting stroke on rails to benefit having the pin in.

What this videos shows is that the flag does not have a detrimental effect on any "Good putts". It doesn't look like it will knock out any good line decent pace putts.
It means it would be beneficial to leave the stick in to stop any putts you hit a fraction too hard.

That is a marginal gain and obvious advantage.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

The R&A brought in this rule to speed up play, unfortunately it will actually hold up play, and I don't think they actually thought golfers would leave the pin in to their advantage which many will. My farther played yesterday in a seniors comp and one of the worst putters in the club putted everything with the pin in and putted really well, many other golfers will try it and I reckon we will end up with probably more golfers leaving the pin in than not.

I predict that this rule will be scrapped by the end of the year because of the faffing of having the pin in and out.

I hope not. It helped me massively on Sunday. Once people get used to it most will putt with the flag in.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Does anyone think putting with the flag in will make a difference to how long a round takes? It may save a few seconds per green but people will still faff about, not ready to play when it is their turn etc.
Saving 2 minutes on a 5 hour round.....whoopee!

It shouldn't be 2 minutes though, it could easily be more. If it is 30 seconds per hole, easy to achieve by not faffing around walking up to the flag, tending, walking back to your ball etc, then that is 9 minutes.

With regards to slow play I think most of us know there is not one silver bullet, it is a series of marginal gains. A few minutes saved on the flag, a few minutes playing out of turn if you are ready, having your bag in the correct place by the green. All of these things help. If you do none of them then no, nothing will change. Do each one and bit by bit things will improve.

5 hour rounds . I'd give up golf if that was the benchmark.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

This was something that came up yesterday. Played with a guy with with big hands and he really struggled to get the ball out of the hole when holing out with the flag in. I can definitely see holes getting damaged and surely it's going to slow play down if people have to stop and repair the hole(s) and how well will these repairs be made?

If he's struggling to retrieve his ball from the hole with the flag in he's only got to take the flag out when he bends his back to pick it out. Not difficult.

 

[Orikoru]

Does anyone think putting with the flag in will make a difference to how long a round takes? It may save a few seconds per green but people will still faff about, not ready to play when it is their turn etc.
Saving 2 minutes on a 5 hour round.....whoopee!

I would guess 30 seconds every other green, so like 5 minutes overall for the round. It's more about the feeling that you can just get on with it an putt rather than the physical amount of time saved. For me anyway.

 

[Curls]

First round of the year yesterday and I reckon if someone wants the pin out and it comes out, I'll putt with it out, but if it's in - and straight - it is staying in. A few times it was leaning and it isn't good regardless of where your entry point to the hole is, cos if you catch the lip and the ball starts rolling around the inside of the hole it wil hit the pin and come out (not to say it wouldn't have lipped out without a pin in, but there's no room on the leaned-into side so you haven't a hope).

I'm not going to start messing with putting it back in, taking it out again etc but my preference, which I'll explain to my partners early doors, would be to have it in. So if that means I putt out first and then remove it for them, what's the big deal?! As long as everyone is sensible it can only speed up play. If people want to play sillybeggars then yeah, but I was behind a group of 3 yesterday who took 6 shots each to reach the green on a par 4 and not only didn't offer to let me through but did everything in their power to ensure they didn't acknowledge my existence, lest even looking in my direction invite the possibility that as a single golfer I would ask to play through them, so there are plenty of reasons people should be dragged off the course and shot if you want to play that game.

I am going to have to ask if the club is going to invest in new cups/pins though, I'd say we have at least 4 or 5 leaners, needs addressing.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I would guess 30 seconds every other green, so like 5 minutes overall for the round. It's more about the feeling that you can just get on with it an putt rather than the physical amount of time saved. For me anyway.

Good post. It's about the flow of the round isn't it? If that leads to time save as well then all the better.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

The green clears quicker as well.

 

[ChipIntoBunker]

The green clears quicker as well.

Not if you have the sort of numpty who was in the group ahead of us on Saturday who stays on the green while counting up his shots and then marking his scorecard

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not if you have the sort of numpty who was in the group ahead of us on Saturday who stays on the green while counting up his shots and then marking his scorecard

That's a tasering offence.

 

[HughJars]

Does anyone think putting with the flag in will make a difference to how long a round takes? It may save a few seconds per green but people will still faff about, not ready to play when it is their turn etc.
Saving 2 minutes on a 5 hour round.....whoopee!

Ready golf, they're not ready to play, YOU play!

 

[pokerjoke]

Does anyone think putting with the flag in will make a difference to how long a round takes? It may save a few seconds per green but people will still faff about, not ready to play when it is their turn etc.
Saving 2 minutes on a 5 hour round.....whoopee!

Nope,leaving the flag in too speed up play is just a load of rubbish.
Ok if your on your own or a 2 ball with an empty course,however in a comp or on a packed course,not in my opinion.
Loads and loads of reasons and better ways to speed up play as we have been through on many occasions.

I definitely will be leaving it in for long downhill putts though,I really can see the benefits, a 50ft putt that would go 12ft past hitting the pin and stopping close is a major advantage(certainly not fair though).

 

[robinthehood]

Nope,leaving the flag in too speed up play is just a load of rubbish.
Ok if your on your own or a 2 ball with an empty course,however in a comp or on a packed course,not in my opinion.
Loads and loads of reasons and better ways to speed up play as we have been through on many occasions.

I definitely will be leaving it in for long downhill putts though,I really can see the benefits, a 50ft putt that would go 12ft past hitting the pin and stopping close is a major advantage(certainly not fair though).

How is it not fair? It's the same for everyone. I think the possible benefit of this change is being massively overstated.

 

[drdel]

Well the above discussion has shown the variety of preferences. In my book this shows the rule change is a good idea because it at least gives the individual golfer the option.

 

[Wolf]

How is it not fair? It's the same for everyone. I think the possible benefit of this change is being massively overstated.

Agreed, most are acting like its a magic potion that suddenly everyone is going to be hitting the flag and dropping or stopping nearer the hole. When in fact if you look at the Amateur game how many putts are hole from long distance not very many at all, so no advantage really is gained and it can't be an advantage of everyone has the same right to leave it in.

 

[pokerjoke]

How is it not fair? It's the same for everyone. I think the possible benefit of this change is being massively overstated.

I just think on long putts it could be an advantage,especially on long downhill putts on fast greens.
I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it’s fair.
50ft downhill putt because I’ve left it the wrong side of the hole,there’s no way I can stop it going 12ft past or even off the green.I leave the flag in and it’s racing by,it hits the flag full tilt and bounces up high stopping a foot from the hole.
Is that right?
Let’s also say it gets me a handicap cut when it would have been buffer(is that fair or right).

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I do think pin in or pin out will vary with the kind of pins used. One course I play has heavy duty pins and they sit in the middle of the hole perfectly, another course I play has what I would imagine are much cheaper plastic(?) pins and often are leaning and therefore does push the ball out of the hole. The 2nd mentioned we would definitely be removing the pin on say 10 ft putts and in.

The biggest time saver, is being able to hit the long putts upto near the pin (almost never hole them or hit the pin, so it is really irrelevant to have it attended or taken out in IMHO) before other people are ready.

That said slow play to me is really made up of slow walking, people looking for their balls, not being ready to play and taking a lot of practise swings, rather than pin removal/attending.

D4S do you often see 5 hour rounds ?

 

[Wolf]

I just think on long putts it could be an advantage,especially on long downhill putts on fast greens.
I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it’s fair.
50ft downhill putt because I’ve left it the wrong side of the hole,there’s no way I can stop it going 12ft past or even off the green.I leave the flag in and it’s racing by,it hits the flag full tilt and bounces up high stopping a foot from the hole.
Is that right?
Let’s also say it gets me a handicap cut when it would have been buffer(is that fair or right).

Imo it's completely fair because everyone is playing the same rules and has the same opportunity you're not gaining an advantage over the field in a comp because they can leave it in as well.

You may say but in that instance it could race past and you 3 putt. I'd argue there's still less chance of it hitting the flag and stopping, because if your that far away you've got a harder chance of hitting the right line especially if you have over hit it that much so chance of 3 putting depends on a lot more than you getting the odd one that hits a flag and stops.

If the argument was for say an illegal driver then of course there's an advantage as not everyone plays the same kit, but we do all play the same course and have same chance of hitting the flag once in a blue moon.

 

[robinthehood]

I just think on long putts it could be an advantage,especially on long downhill putts on fast greens.
I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it’s fair.
50ft downhill putt because I’ve left it the wrong side of the hole,there’s no way I can stop it going 12ft past or even off the green.I leave the flag in and it’s racing by,it hits the flag full tilt and bounces up high stopping a foot from the hole.
Is that right?
Let’s also say it gets me a handicap cut when it would have been buffer(is that fair or right).

Yes it's perfectly fair. I also think your overstating your putting prowess from 50 feet. I doubt you could actually demonstrate that scenario more than 1 in 100 times , probably even worse than that.

 

[Orikoru]

I just think on long putts it could be an advantage,especially on long downhill putts on fast greens.
I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it’s fair.
50ft downhill putt because I’ve left it the wrong side of the hole,there’s no way I can stop it going 12ft past or even off the green.I leave the flag in and it’s racing by,it hits the flag full tilt and bounces up high stopping a foot from the hole.
Is that right?
Let’s also say it gets me a handicap cut when it would have been buffer(is that fair or right).

Wouldn't you say it's a little reward for getting it bang on line from 50 feet?? And as mentioned it can't be unfair when everyone gets the same benefit on their downhill putts.