potential problem with the new 'flag in' rule !

[Slab]

I just think on long putts it could be an advantage,especially on long downhill putts on fast greens.
I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it’s fair.
50ft downhill putt because I’ve left it the wrong side of the hole,there’s no way I can stop it going 12ft past or even off the green.I leave the flag in and it’s racing by,it hits the flag full tilt and bounces up high stopping a foot from the hole.
Is that right?
Let’s also say it gets me a handicap cut when it would have been buffer(is that fair or right).

As Wolf says, an advantage over whom?

There's only an advantage for you against a time when you or someone else were faced with the same putt played last year under last years rules

There's no advantage over any other player on the course this year

 

[ChipIntoBunker]

I just think on long putts it could be an advantage,especially on long downhill putts on fast greens.
I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it’s fair.
50ft downhill putt because I’ve left it the wrong side of the hole,there’s no way I can stop it going 12ft past or even off the green.I leave the flag in and it’s racing by,it hits the flag full tilt and bounces up high stopping a foot from the hole.
Is that right?
Let’s also say it gets me a handicap cut when it would have been buffer(is that fair or right).

Taking your ball further back so its now 60ft downhill...but just off the green so you're chipping (presumably with the pin in)...would you still claim it as unfair that the ball may hit the pin and not race 12ft past?

 

[garyinderry]

Why 50feet?


Leave it in for that 10 footer.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

D4S do you often see 5 hour rounds ?

Never at my club, anything over 4 hours is considered slow but you see plenty of posts on here about people complaining of long rounds.
I think a big deal is being made about the time saved by leaving the flag in when people should be looking at other reasons for slow play.

 

[pokerjoke]

Taking your ball further back so its now 60ft downhill...but just off the green so you're chipping (presumably with the pin in)...would you still claim it as unfair that the ball may hit the pin and not race 12ft past?

No because that rule hasn’t changed.
As I understand it and I may be wrong the flag can now be left in to speed up play.
Imo and it’s only an opinion it will help with racy putts that if the flag wasn’t in would hit the back of the hole hard and maybe run a long way past,if the flag is left in and although rare hit the flag hard,jump and land close,that’s not what the rule was changed for.

As I said maybe wrong but in the grand scheme of it I don’t give a toss either.

 

[Orikoru]

No because that rule hasn’t changed.
As I understand it and I may be wrong the flag can now be left in to speed up play.
Imo and it’s only an opinion it will help with racy putts that if the flag wasn’t in would hit the back of the hole hard and maybe run a long way past,if the flag is left in and although rare hit the flag hard,jump and land close,that’s not what the rule was changed for.

As I said maybe wrong but in the grand scheme of it I don’t give a toss either.

I highly doubt that they didn't discuss all the permutations of the rule before bringing it in. They obviously realised it may assist people on the occasional downhill putt that will hit the pin and decided it was fine. People (not just you) are talking as if they haven't even thought it through.

 

[Imurg]

In solo rounds over the past 25 years I've almost always left the flag in for putting, so I've got a bit of experience in this.
In my view, a putt that hits the flagstick and rebounds from the hole is almost certainly carrying too much pace to drop unless it's one of those that hits the exact back of the cup, jumps 6 inches into the air and drops in the cup.
A putt that has enough pace to drop anyway will not rebound away if it hits the flagstick.
As a result, having the flagstick left in the hole increases your chances of holing any putt.
And it also reduces the chance that the ball will go 8-10 feet past the hole as there is something other than the hole in the way.

 

[robinthehood]

In solo rounds over the past 25 years I've almost always left the flag in for putting, so I've got a bit of experience in this.
In my view, a putt that hits the flagstick and rebounds from the hole is almost certainly carrying too much pace to drop unless it's one of those that hits the exact back of the cup, jumps 6 inches into the air and drops in the cup.
A putt that has enough pace to drop anyway will not rebound away if it hits the flagstick.
As a result, having the flagstick left in the hole increases your chances of holing any putt.
And it also reduces the chance that the ball will go 8-10 feet past the hole as there is something other than the hole in the way.

Yeah there has to be a small advantage as those putts that previously were hit to hard but on target will now stop nearer or maybe go in, but like you I've always left the flag in on solo rounds and don't think the gain is of any real significance.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Flag in makes the hole look smaller IMO, I prefer it out from a confidence point of view.

 

[clubchamp98]

Played nine holes solo this morning . Flag in .
I can’t see any problems really as far as golf goes !
But had a very interesting chat on one hole with the head greenkeeper.
He showed me the hole on the green I was approaching.
“Look at that , this is caused by people yanking the pin out to bring the ball with ,to save them bending down “
I could see quite clearly the edge of the hole had been damaged.
if this is going to be the norm I think it’s a bad change.

 

[Grant85]

Played nine holes solo this morning . Flag in .
I can’t see any problems really as far as golf goes !
But had a very interesting chat on one hole with the head greenkeeper.
He showed me the hole on the green I was approaching.
“Look at that , this is caused by people yanking the pin out to bring the ball with ,to save them bending down “
I could see quite clearly the edge of the hole had been damaged.
if this is going to be the norm I think it’s a bad change.

It may be, but it falls into the same category as guys not repairing pitchmarks or replacing divots etc.

Ultimately it becomes ware and tear on the course and discourteous to other members / customers.

 

[pokerjoke]

I highly doubt that they didn't discuss all the permutations of the rule before bringing it in. They obviously realised it may assist people on the occasional downhill putt that will hit the pin and decided it was fine. People (not just you) are talking as if they haven't even thought it through.

Just out of interest what’s your thoughts on balls in old divots.

 

[clubchamp98]

It may be, but it falls into the same category as guys not repairing pitchmarks or replacing divots etc.

Ultimately it becomes ware and tear on the course and discourteous to other members / customers.

Spoke to the comp sec in the clubhouse and he had been made aware by the GK.
His take was a warning was being posted to tell players it would be considered a serious breach of etiquette and a disqualification from any comp and a warning about conduct in any other game.

I have seen loads of people do this over years so this might stop it.
But you would have to grass them up, ?

 

[clubchamp98]

It may be, but it falls into the same category as guys not repairing pitchmarks or replacing divots etc.

Ultimately it becomes ware and tear on the course and discourteous to other members / customers.

Not really you can fix anything on the green now.
But can you fix wear and tear on the hole?
I think you can’t.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just out of interest what’s your thoughts on balls in old divots.

This is an old one .
I think if your balls in an obvious divot you should get relief.
But what’s a divot?

Strange that only part of the ball needs to be in the hole now to be deemed holed.
But can be underground in some divots and nothing.


Actually broke a six iron shaft playing from a divot once in Club Champs.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not really you can fix anything on the green now.
But can you fix wear and tear on the hole?
I think you can’t.

Will it lead to the hole being moved around more? I don't know how long it stays in one place during a week but perhaps that will have to increase in order to combat this.

 

[clubchamp98]

Will it lead to the hole being moved around more? I don't know how long it stays in one place during a week but perhaps that will have to increase in order to combat this.

New holes for comp sat am but not cut again until mon am.
It will make more work for staff changing damaged holes.

 

[Grant85]

Just out of interest what’s your thoughts on balls in old divots.

This is an old one .
I think if your balls in an obvious divot you should get relief.
But what’s a divot?

Strange that only part of the ball needs to be in the hole now to be deemed holed.
But can be underground in some divots and nothing.


Actually broke a six iron shaft playing from a divot once in Club Champs.

I think this is the problem with that rule.

How do you define divot in the rulebook?
Is it a divot or animal scrapings?
How deep does it have to be?
How old?

In reality this would effectively be preferred lies on all fairways.

I'm not sure if the rules now define what a fairway is? They used to talk about areas 'through the green'.

 

[robinthehood]

I think this is the problem with that rule.

How do you define divot in the rulebook?
Is it a divot or animal scrapings?
How deep does it have to be?
How old?

In reality this would effectively be preferred lies on all fairways.

I'm not sure if the rules now define what a fairway is? They used to talk about areas 'through the green'.

Its one of those things that sounds like a nice idea but would be to hard to put into practice, with every slightly dodgy lie being questioned. Just play it as it lies ,it's not that common occurrence.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

New holes for comp sat am but not cut again until mon am.
It will make more work for staff changing damaged holes.

Thanks for that, I don't play often enough to notice when they are changed and don't see our greenstaff around. Hopefully it would not require all 18 to be moved early, they may only need to mov 3-4 for example, but at least there is that option if required. I've played 2 x 18 holes under the new system and I haven't noticed anything odd about the holes so far so I hope this will not be a universal problem. One to be monitored.