Post Office - Horizon scandal

[Hobbit]

Yesterday saw 3 witnesses giving evidence to the Inquiry. Jonathan Reynolds, the current minister for business. Kemi Badenoch, the previous business minister. And Patterson, Fujitsu CEO Europe.

I’ve only dipped in and out of the day’s proceedings.

Jonathan Reynolds - he’s nowhere near up to speed yet, and interviewing was almost pointless. Said all the right things but there’s no urgency in govt pushing things forward. Best example of this was a question asked by Sam Stein KC, “have you met with the Head of Fujitsu yet?” “No.” “Would you like to?” “Yes.” “He’s due in to give evidence later today. Perhaps you could meet him then to arrange something?” “That’s a good idea.” … a poor performance.

Kemi Badenoch - it was everybody else’s fault. The Civill Servants were poor and obstructive. The Treasury wouldn’t release money. The PO board were secretive and the non-executive directors ineffectual. Having read a number of biographies about past PM’s and chancellors, you could drive a horse and cart through her waffle.

Patterson - can’t guarantee Horizon is stable now. Is worried that the PO won’t have a replacement system in place by the end of the current contract and has to trigger the 5 year extension. Won’t commit to paying compensation till the Inquiry is finished, even though compensation is already being paid out. Short answer - he wants nothing to do with Horizon now, and will only provide tech support for faults. Will not interrogate Horizon to aid PO with the current prosecutions.

 

[Hobbit]

The last 2 days has seen 2 witnesses before the Inquiry. They both gave evidence at the same time, sat together. Dame Sandra Dawson & Dr Katy Steward, Governance Experts. Both are leading academics, perhaps the very top of the tree, and tasked by the Inquiry to carry out a complete review of the Post Office’s institutional behaviours in relation to how the scandal evolved. The review was pretty much at a forensic level and very much unbiased. Where a question from the barristers and Core Participant’s legal teams was a leading question the two ladies weren’t shy in disagreeing with the premise. Equally, where an answer would paint the PO in a bad light, they weren’t shy in saying so.

Two very intelligent ladies, and who even made the barristers look very ordinary.

That concludes the evidence scheduled to be given in person by witnesses. There now follows a couple of days, off camera, in which witness statements from those not called to appear and additional statements from those that appeared will be read into evidence. One to watch out for is from Gareth Jenkins.

There’s also a legal submission due in from the Post Office’s barristers. Do they still feel the need for the final word? Surely their attempt to recuse Justice Fraser taught them something? Maybe it’s nothing - we’ll see…

Following that there will be closing statements heard on the 16th & 17th Dec. Some will be from the Inquiry’s barristers, some from the Core Participants legal teams and some from the witness’s legal teams. Gareth Jenkin’s legal team has asked for, and been given, the opportunity for a longer closing statement because of issues surrounding his disjointed appearances at the Inquiry.

Below is the second session from the above witnesses. Very interesting, although a little quirky at times.

 

[Hobbit]

“The reality gap.” The comment is a quote from one of the journalists covering the Inquiry/scandal, and is a view on what the PO executives have said, in glowing terms, about the compensation schemes(x4) and what those schemes actually deliver. However, the problem with opinion pieces is trying to divorce facts from the opinions.

Thankfully the Inquiry did just that in July 2022. There’s a whole raft of hearings which specifically dealt with the nuts and bolts of how the various schemes work. For example, one of the schemes only covers repayment of shortfalls. It raises the question of how does a SubPostmaster provide the level of evidence the PO demands? If the SubPostmaster has withdrawn £200 from their bank account, spent £100 on food shopping and put the other £100 in the till, where’s the proof of a shortfall and where’s the proof that the SubPostmaster paid £100 of their own money into the till?

Another scheme doesn’t accept claims for consequential loss. If a SubPostmaster was made bankrupt because of a shortfall and losing their job, they can’t make a claim against that.

Thankfully, one of the schemes has allowed SubPostmasters to reopen their claims but the bar for that is set ridiculously high.

And, again, why has Janet Skinner, a convicted/imprisoned and exonerated SubPostmaster been told she has to have a 5th medical to support her claim for compensation?

No the schemes are not sunny uplands, far from it, which makes those executives that gave evidence in the last few weeks look like fraudsters.

 

[Hobbit]

Operation Phoenix.

Following the Group Litigation win by the SubPostmasters the Post Office, eventually, created a project in which it set up an investigation into the actions of its own investigators. Needless to say it’s been heavily criticised for investigating itself. Calls of cover up, white wash etc.

Two investigators have been referred to the Police for further investigation and potential prosecution - no names have been released.

Alison Hall, ex-SubPostmaster who was convicted, had called in the PO, giving them an extensive list of Horizon issues in which she also detailed failed transactions. She was suspended pending an investigation, and subsequently prosecuted. The extensive list of issues she had passed to the PO was not included in the investigator’s report to the PO’s legal team that decided who to prosecute.

A number of ex-SubPostmasters and individuals who have been involved in the scandal, e.g. Second Sight, have been approached by the Project Phoenix team. Some have refused to participate in the investigation citing its a cover up etc. As far as they are concerned the Inquiry will uncover everything that needs to found.

As an aside, the Post Office are on notice following its failure to provide information requested under a Freedom of Information request. They now have 30 days to comply with the request or face prosecution for contempt of court. Bearing in mind, because of the Inquiry, the PO created a Disclosure Officer, the court actually has a name of an individual responsible for the failure to disclose - Ben Foat.

 

[cliveb]

Unless I've missed it, am surprised that this hasn't been mentioned in the thread:

Post Office wrongly used public funds to pay for legal battle | Computer Weekly

Senior civil servant’s appearance at public inquiry reveals Post Office broke spending rules when it diverted money to legal battle

www.computerweekly.com

 

[Hobbit]

Unless I've missed it, am surprised that this hasn't been mentioned in the thread:

Post Office wrongly used public funds to pay for legal battle | Computer Weekly

Senior civil servant’s appearance at public inquiry reveals Post Office broke spending rules when it diverted money to legal battle

www.computerweekly.com

And the PO's Chief Financial Officer revealed during his appearance before the Inquiry that the sign off for that spend never went across his desk. And he also said it never appeared in the annual accounts.

It is mentioned in the thread back in June, July in Phase 5/6.

 

[D-S]

You’ve got to love Jason:-

 

[Hobbit]

Just a quick update on the compensation schemes, or at least one of them. The £75k scheme is pretty straightforward, and the PO are looking to speed it up, whatever that means. Compensation has been getting paid out on this scheme for 4 years. 13% of claims have been settled… 13%. During that time one firm of solicitors has received £164m in fees.

 

[Hobbit]

Excellent article from Computer Weekly, including a number of links within the article to previous articles pulling the various phases together. A lengthy read but worth the effort.

Post Office Horizon IT scandal inquiry: Three years of shocking revelations | Computer Weekly

Nearly three years of shocking revelations from the Post Office Horizon scandal inquiry

www.computerweekly.com

 

[Hobbit]

Centrica drop Fujitsu as a preferred supplier. Whispers being that they are a tainted brand…

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Centrica drop Fujitsu as a preferred supplier. Whispers being that they are a tainted brand…

How are they anything but? I'd be more amazed if they were picking up any work right now. Who has looked at this episode and thought 'they look competent and will improve our business '?

 

[clubchamp98]

How are they anything but? I'd be more amazed if they were picking up any work right now. Who has looked at this episode and thought 'they look competent and will improve our business '?

That’s what brown envelops are for.!

 

[Bunkermagnet]

That’s what brown envelops are for.!

I think the envelopes would only be brown as a result of their contents. Fujitsu have it covered all over them and their reputation, and rightly so.

 

[Hobbit]

How are they anything but? I'd be more amazed if they were picking up any work right now. Who has looked at this episode and thought 'they look competent and will improve our business '?

I don’t think Paul Patterson, Fujitsu CEO Europe, did the company any favours at the Inquiry 2 weeks back. I know the Core Participants legal teams can be spikey but going back at them the way he did didn’t look good.

 

[Hobbit]

258 SubPostmasters have died before everything has been resolved. I wonder how many living SubPostmasters have lost relatives before their innocence was proven?

One ex-SubPostmaster is 91 years old, and has been offered 29% of her forensically calculated claim. Remind me of the lovely glowing words uttered by the PO CEO & director in charge of the redress schemes less than 4 weeks ago. Imagine having paid £32,000 just to cover the shortfall and being offered £21,000 as “full & fair compensation.”

And a mention to Issy Hogg, solicitor to Jo Hamilton(convicted in 2006) and Seema Misra(convicted in early 2010), who died last week. Nick Wallis covers it better than me - see below.

Issy Hogg

Issy Hogg and Jo Hamilton very early in the morning at BBC Surrey on 7 Feb 2011 Issy Hogg, the criminal defence solicitor for Subpostmasters Jo Hamilton and Seema Misra, has sadly passed away. She …

www.postofficescandal.uk

 

[AussieKB]

258 SubPostmasters have died before everything has been resolved. I wonder how many living SubPostmasters have lost relatives before their innocence was proven?

One ex-SubPostmaster is 91 years old, and has been offered 29% of her forensically calculated claim. Remind me of the lovely glowing words uttered by the PO CEO & director in charge of the redress schemes less than 4 weeks ago. Imagine having paid £32,000 just to cover the shortfall and being offered £21,000 as “full & fair compensation.”

And a mention to Issy Hogg, solicitor to Jo Hamilton(convicted in 2006) and Seema Misra(convicted in early 2010), who died last week. Nick Wallis covers it better than me - see below.

Issy Hogg

Issy Hogg and Jo Hamilton very early in the morning at BBC Surrey on 7 Feb 2011 Issy Hogg, the criminal defence solicitor for Subpostmasters Jo Hamilton and Seema Misra, has sadly passed away. She …

www.postofficescandal.uk

I read all your reports, thank you for keeping us up to date, I am still astonished that the wheels of justice are this slow if at all they are moving, think it is overdue that the PM gets involved.

 

[Hobbit]

The Post Office has ‘dumped’ its in-house developed Horizon IT replacement, due to be launched in March this year. They’ve triggered a one year extension of their contract with Fujitsu. Development costs in excess of £100m, expected to rise to £200m, with some elements of the new system expected to be introduced piecemeal.

 

[rulefan]

The Post Office has ‘dumped’ its in-house developed Horizon IT replacement, due to be launched in March this year. They’ve triggered a one year extension of their contract with Fujitsu. Development costs in excess of £100m, expected to rise to £200m, with some elements of the new system expected to be introduced piecemeal.

I was in our local PO yesterday and was told they are 'expecting' a new system 'shortly'.

 

[Hobbit]

I was in our local PO yesterday and was told they are 'expecting' a new system 'shortly'.

First rumoured that it would be dumped in January. The PO laid off 70% of the development team in June, pushing the roll out into next year. Around that time the PO asked the Treasury for a further £1bn towards both the development costs and the continued maintenance of Horizon.

In March the PO asked Fujitsu for a 5 year maintenance contract for Horizon. Fujitsu will only renew beyond March ‘25 if the PO have a credible plan to replace Horizon.

A number of media outlets reported in June that the PO were going to drop development of the new system because of costs. Computer Weekly, September 22nd, reported that the project was about to be shelved - the Telegraph reported similarly around the same time.

Yesterday saw the first report in the past tense, “the PO has dropped the project to replace Horizon.”

 

[Hobbit]

There’s an article in the Times today reporting a spokesman from the Met Police saying that they don’t expect anyone to be in court for perjury/conspiracy to be in court before 2027 or 2028, if at all.

Bearing in mind some of the evidence we’ve heard, the “if at all” comment is very disappointing. In that respect, I feel the whole judicial system is on trial.