Post Office - Horizon scandal

[Hobbit]

Apologies for the delay in updating - no b’band for 3 days, new router installed late yesterday afternoon. Been playing catch up last night and this morning.

To be fair to Gareth Jenkins, if he felt a specific bug didn’t impact the evidence in a specific case, he didn’t include it in the evidence for that case. However, what he wouldn’t have known on each occasion was whether or not another bug was at play.

However, he has been drawn out of him superbly by Jason Beer KC is large tracts of his evidence was written or amended by the Post Office. And some of the conclusions he drew were obtained from spreadsheets provided by the PO, not from actual computer data.

The Chair, Sir Wyn, reminded him on a few occasions that his evidence wasn’t his evidence but had been written by the prosecution, i.e. the Post Office. Independent? Aye, right…

Below is yesterday PM’s session. The last 30 mins or so give a good flavour of the last couple of days.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It's been quite dry in comparison to other questioning but the points being extracted are just as important in the grand scheme of this giant jigsaw puzzle.

 

[Hobbit]

Gareth Jenkins is toast! Currently going through the details of his evidence in the Seema Misra trial. He is toast!

 

[Hobbit]

Gareth Jenkins, expert witness…

First of all, he was (allegedly) never told the responsibilities of an expert witness. That may well be true… but… he did know that an expert witness was allowed into court to listen to other witnesses give evidence. The “but I was never told” lacks a bit of credibility.

Secondly, his expert witness statements were subject to numerous rewrites & omissions by the PO’s legal dept & legal teams employed to act for the PO. How much of his witness statements were his, and how much were written by the PO?

Thirdly, he was asked to sign 6 copies of his best witness statement for use in other trials. Not all of that statement was written by him, and as a generic statement it didn’t cover the relevant issues with the account mismatches.

He was absolutely not an independent witness. He was most certainly a ‘schooled’ prosecution witness with very dodgy, tainted evidence.

 

[Billysboots]

Gareth Jenkins, expert witness…

First of all, he was (allegedly) never told the responsibilities of an expert witness. That may well be true… but… he did know that an expert witness was allowed into court to listen to other witnesses give evidence. The “but I was never told” lacks a bit of credibility.

Secondly, his expert witness statements were subject to numerous rewrites & omissions by the PO’s legal dept & legal teams employed to act for the PO. How much of his witness statements were his, and how much were written by the PO?

Thirdly, he was asked to sign 6 copies of his best witness statement for use in other trials. Not all of that statement was written by him, and as a generic statement it didn’t cover the relevant issues with the account mismatches.

He was absolutely not an independent witness. He was most certainly a ‘schooled’ prosecution witness with very dodgy, tainted evidence.

When I worked as a Forensic Collision Investigator I was classed as an expert witness, and I recall very vividly that every time I prepared evidence I had to sign a declaration that I understood my duty was to the Courts. For Jenkins to suggest he did not know this, and did not know it until 2020, is absolute rubbish. I simply don’t believe him.

As an expert witness Jenkins would have been able to sit in Court throughout proceedings, listen to all the witnesses, and provide evidence of opinion, not just fact. Despite me being a police officer when I worked in such a capacity, I absolutely understood that I did not take instructions from any other police officer, regardless of their rank. It caused, and doubtless continues to cause, real consternation amongst other officers, especially those who managed investigations, when they were told, often in no uncertain terms, that we were no more “on their side” than we were on anyone else’s.

It is a very privileged position to be in, but comes with enormous responsibility, and in my twenty years working in that capacity I never came across a single expert who did not fully understand exactly what their role was. For Jenkins to claim that he was still giving evidence as an expert witness a full ten years after Seema Misra’s trial, and yet STILL not understand his responsibilities means he is either a grade one halfwit or a born liar.

It has to be one or the other. And I think we all know which it is.

 

[Hobbit]

Today was Gareth Jenkin’s last scheduled appearance at the Inquiry. After 3 days of questioning by the Inquiry’s barristers, today saw the Core Participant’s barristers and solicitors asking the questions. Perhaps not as fiery as other sessions from the Core Participants, it didn’t disappoint.

As per yesterday’s update, he wasn’t as sharp as he thought he was, or he’s an exceptionally good actor. Time and again he was tripped up but, perhaps, the biggest revelation has been who wrote paragraphs of his witness statements and, on one occasion, who slipped in a number of unsigned pages to one of his statements. He was tripped up on the signing of each page of the witness statement, and there’s more to be got from that. He knew he was supposed to sign every page, and when asked why he hadn’t, the Inquiry had him pausing and stuttering in the headlights.

Sadly, as the Inquiry went through the cases he gave evidence for its clear the judge at one of them wasn’t good enough nor the defence team. Maybe it was a subconscious bias towards a trusted brand.

Is he worth charging over his apparent lack of professionalism and his obvious bias? I think there’s a lot more to him than we’ve seen this week, especially in terms of his robust defence of Horizon. And it’s clear from the email traffic he was a lot closer to the PO prosecution teams, and I feel there’s further digging to be done there. And I think the fact he demanded immunity to testify suggests he hasn’t revealed everything… yet…

 

[Billysboots]

Today was Gareth Jenkin’s last scheduled appearance at the Inquiry. After 3 days of questioning by the Inquiry’s barristers, today saw the Core Participant’s barristers and solicitors asking the questions. Perhaps not as fiery as other sessions from the Core Participants, it didn’t disappoint.

As per yesterday’s update, he wasn’t as sharp as he thought he was, or he’s an exceptionally good actor. Time and again he was tripped up but, perhaps, the biggest revelation has been who wrote paragraphs of his witness statements and, on one occasion, who slipped in a number of unsigned pages to one of his statements. He was tripped up on the signing of each page of the witness statement, and there’s more to be got from that. He knew he was supposed to sign every page, and when asked why he hadn’t, the Inquiry had him pausing and stuttering in the headlights.

Sadly, as the Inquiry went through the cases he gave evidence for its clear the judge at one of them wasn’t good enough nor the defence team. Maybe it was a subconscious bias towards a trusted brand.

Is he worth charging over his apparent lack of professionalism and his obvious bias? I think there’s a lot more to him than we’ve seen this week, especially in terms of his robust defence of Horizon. And it’s clear from the email traffic he was a lot closer to the PO prosecution teams, and I feel there’s further digging to be done there. And I think the fact he demanded immunity to testify suggests he hasn’t revealed everything… yet…

I haven’t watched today, Bri, but the man is an absolute disgrace. There is so much which is wrong in the way he has been involved in these prosecutions that I simply don’t know where to begin.

His statements, reports and everything he produces for the Courts are his, and his alone. Of course, that is true of all witnesses, but to hear that other people were contributing to or otherwise directing his evidence is staggering beyond belief.

 

[Hobbit]

I haven’t watched today, Bri, but the man is an absolute disgrace. There is so much which is wrong in the way he has been involved in these prosecutions that I simply don’t know where to begin.

His statements, reports and everything he produces for the Courts are his, and his alone. Of course, that is true of all witnesses, but to hear that other people were contributing to or otherwise directing his evidence is staggering beyond belief.

His evidence was duplicitous and often disingenuous. Maybe even disgraceful and deceitful. He tried twisting words but wasn’t anywhere near as good as the PO’s PR guy.

 

[Hobbit]

A number cropped up at the Inquiry today that I’ve been looking for, for some time.

How many SubPostmasters offices were there in the mid 2000’s? 12,000. 12,000 divided by the 3,500 SubPostmasters who currently have claims against the Post Office = 29%.

29% of SubPostmasters were criminals? It’s a number that’s been suggested to the PO on numerous occasions, i.e. no way did the PO suddenly end up with so many criminals working for them especially as all of them went through an interview/vetting process.

 

[Billysboots]

A number cropped up at the Inquiry today that I’ve been looking for, for some time.

How many SubPostmasters offices were there in the mid 2000’s? 12,000. 12,000 divided by the 3,500 SubPostmasters who currently have claims against the Post Office = 29%.

29% of SubPostmasters were criminals? It’s a number that’s been suggested to the PO on numerous occasions, i.e. no way did the PO suddenly end up with so many criminals working for them especially as all of them went through an interview/vetting process.

This was something we talked about on the course when this scandal really hit the news during the ITV drama. Surely, someone in the PO must have sat there during a quiet moment of contemplation and thought that there could not have been so many crooked sub postmasters all working with the organisation at a similar time.

It simply doesn’t make any logical sense on any level. But then, of course, once they got the wind in their sails and the scent of blood, they became utterly blinkered.

 

[Hobbit]

When I worked as a Forensic Collision Investigator I was classed as an expert witness, and I recall very vividly that every time I prepared evidence I had to sign a declaration that I understood my duty was to the Courts. For Jenkins to suggest he did not know this, and did not know it until 2020, is absolute rubbish. I simply don’t believe him.

As an expert witness Jenkins would have been able to sit in Court throughout proceedings, listen to all the witnesses, and provide evidence of opinion, not just fact. Despite me being a police officer when I worked in such a capacity, I absolutely understood that I did not take instructions from any other police officer, regardless of their rank. It caused, and doubtless continues to cause, real consternation amongst other officers, especially those who managed investigations, when they were told, often in no uncertain terms, that we were no more “on their side” than we were on anyone else’s.

It is a very privileged position to be in, but comes with enormous responsibility, and in my twenty years working in that capacity I never came across a single expert who did not fully understand exactly what their role was. For Jenkins to claim that he was still giving evidence as an expert witness a full ten years after Seema Misra’s trial, and yet STILL not understand his responsibilities means he is either a grade one halfwit or a born liar.

It has to be one or the other. And I think we all know which it is.

His expert witness statements were written on pre-formatted templates which had at the top of the very first page the declaration he had to sign.

Fiona Paige, one of the Core Participant solicitors, got him to admit that every known bug had to have been an unknown bug before it was known. Maybe he didn’t make the link but he was then led through Seema Misra’s evidence and asked if he’d stress-tested the transactions she had reported for unknown bugs. No, he hadn’t. He did a cursory look for known bugs.

Similarly with Lee Castleton’s evidence. Had he stress-tested the transactions in his branch account to check for unknown bugs? No, he hadn’t. He did a cursory look for known bugs. Edit: he was asked if he’d checked the Bureau de change transactions for errors, a known source of errors. And had he checked the Bank of Ireland transactions, a known source of errors. No, again.

He was then asked about hardware issues impacting transactions and balances, e.g. it was known that the PIN terminal could cause transaction issues. No, he hadn’t once checked the transactions using the hardware from the branch in question.

He was asked if a brief, almost instantaneous, power cut was known to cause transaction errors. Again, a question for which the answer was already known, i.e. a power cut, even a flicker, would cause a lost transaction and a balance mismatch. And it would also stop a flag being attached to the transaction. The questioning neatly shifted to what was part of the Helpdesk’s script? And the answer… switch the terminal off then back on - oh, a man made power cut = transaction lost + balance mismatch + no error flag. The Helpdesk were accidentally destroying evidence by advising the SubPostmasters to turn the branch terminals off and back on.

 

[Hobbit]

His expert witness statements were written on pre-formatted templates which had at the top of the very first page the declaration he had to sign.

Fiona Paige, one of the Core Participant solicitors, got him to admit that every known bug had to have been an unknown bug before it was known. Maybe he didn’t make the link but he was then led through Seema Misra’s evidence and asked if he’d stress-tested the transactions she had reported for unknown bugs. No, he hadn’t. He did a cursory look for known bugs.

I’ve highlighted a paragraph from my previous post. It’s niggled & niggled at the back of my mind since hearing his evidence last Friday.

From the evidence heard during Jarnail Singh’s session at the Inquiry; Gareth Jenkins sent an email to Jarnail Singh on the Friday prior to Seema Misra’s trial starting on the Tuesday. He did check the transactions against the Receipts & Mismatch bug, and found that the bug was evident in the transactions at that branch. That email, if Disclosed to the defence team, would have shown that Seema Misra was not guilty.

Jarnail Singh said in his evidence to the Inquiry that he didn’t receive the email hence couldn’t Disclose it. Jason Beer KC went to town on Singh, showing that not only had he received it but he had saved it to a ‘local’ drive and then printed it 9 minutes later. Singh still denied having seen it, and went on to say he didn’t know how to save a document nor print it.

Gareth Jenkins could have stated in his evidence at Seema Misra’s trial that there was a bug that had impacted the receipts & balances on Seema Misra’s Horizon terminal. Jarnail Singh could have stopped that trial before it started. A significant, unequivocal piece of evidence was not Disclosed before the trial, nor from the witness box. And an innocent, heavily pregnant Seema Misra went to jail.

#Hobbit is beyond angry!

 

[Billysboots]

I’ve highlighted a paragraph from my previous post. It’s niggled & niggled at the back of my mind since hearing his evidence last Friday.

From the evidence heard during Jarnail Singh’s session at the Inquiry; Gareth Jenkins sent an email to Jarnail Singh on the Friday prior to Seema Misra’s trial starting on the Tuesday. He did check the transactions against the Receipts & Mismatch bug, and found that the bug was evident in the transactions at that branch. That email, if Disclosed to the defence team, would have shown that Seema Misra was not guilty.

Jarnail Singh said in his evidence to the Inquiry that he didn’t receive the email hence couldn’t Disclose it. Jason Beer KC went to town on Singh, showing that not only had he received it but he had saved it to a ‘local’ drive and then printed it 9 minutes later. Singh still denied having seen it, and went on to say he didn’t know how to save a document nor print it.

Gareth Jenkins could have stated in his evidence at Seema Misra’s trial that there was a bug that had impacted the receipts & balances on Seema Misra’s Horizon terminal. Jarnail Singh could have stopped that trial before it started. A significant, unequivocal piece of evidence was not Disclosed before the trial, nor from the witness box. And an innocent, heavily pregnant Seema Misra went to jail.

#Hobbit is beyond angry!

A clear and unequivocal case of perverting the course of justice.

 

[Hobbit]

Currently watching the afternoon session which sees Tim Parker, PO chair. He followed Alice Perkins as Chair to the PO and was Paula Vennells boss. This morning’s session included a piece on Vennells suitability as CEO to the PO, written by the govt stakeholders/Bis. Very damning. Unfortunately, Tim Parker had barely got his feet under the table at that point.

This afternoon’s session includes a piece called the Swift review. There were a number of recommendations put forward by senior independent counsel. Parker instructed his board to action them. Jason Beer KC then brings up a number of emails that show that board members chose what recommendations to drive forward and to what level. Tim Parker has just thrown the whole board under the bus, and is now reversing over it.

As has been seen from previous sessions in the Inquiry there was an inner circle that did whatever they wanted. As we saw from Susan Crichton, General Counsel, & Lesley Sewell, Chief Information Officer(IT), evidence, if you weren’t in the gang you were crucified for highlighting issues that should be acted upon.

 

[D-S]

I’m very surprised that someone in such a key role as Chairman of Post Office Ltd could at the same time be Chairman of Samsonite and Chairman of the National Trust. He tried to defend his time allocation but when he said he was uncertain as to whether he had read the legal advice you have to wonder if there was too much going on and could his ‘oversight’ have been better. Certainly the last lawyer on behalf of Jo Hamilton hit home on this point (I find it very emotional seeing the wronged Sub Postmasters sitting there with the lawyers). Last week seeing Seema Misra touching her lawyer’s arm in thanks for her questions to Jenkins was extremely moving.

 

[Hobbit]

I’m very surprised that someone in such a key role as Chairman of Post Office Ltd could at the same time be Chairman of Samsonite and Chairman of the National Trust. He tried to defend his time allocation but when he said he was uncertain as to whether he had read the legal advice you have to wonder if there was too much going on and could his ‘oversight’ have been better. Certainly the last lawyer on behalf of Jo Hamilton hit home on this point (I find it very emotional seeing the wronged Sub Postmasters sitting there with the lawyers). Last week seeing Seema Misra touching her lawyer’s arm in thanks for her questions to Jenkins was extremely moving.

Tough gig being paid millions for 78 days work a year.

 

[Hobbit]

Below is Tim Parker’s full morning and afternoon session. It runs for about 6 hours 30 mins. He started the day quite guarded but by the afternoon session he probably said more than he should have as it revealed there was something underneath the veneer that isn’t quite wholesome. He’s led down a path from around 5hrs 20mins very skilfully, and he shows his true colours and arrogance at 5hrs 40mins.

Sat next to the Core Participant’s KC is a SubPostmaster whose conviction has been overturned in the courts, i.e. not part of the blanket quashing of convictions. Bearing in mind her appeal went through the full review before the conviction was overturned, the Post Office followed up that considered judgement by publicly stating they felt she was still a criminal. Tim Parker was asked if he would like to apologise for that characterisation. He said he couldn’t recognise the court’s decision till he’d read the judgement.

As the day wore on, I feel we started to see the real Tim Parker - characterised by the Unions as the Prince of Darkness…

 

[Hobbit]

 

[Robster59]

Just a quick thanks Hobbit for continuing to provide updates and summaries for this. There is a lot to go through and your precis is really valuable in providing an insight and overview of how this is progressing. It certainly doesn't get any better.

 

[Hobbit]

Common sense & a healthy dose of natural justice.

A number of SubPostmasters went bankrupt as a result of their prosecutions and judgements awarded by the courts. When they won the Group Litigation against the PO they were awarded compensation. However, as they had a number of outstanding creditors, not least the PO, the compensation was to be paid to the creditors under bankruptcy laws.

Seems very harsh that SubPostmasters be forced into bankruptcy because of an unsound conviction, and when that conviction is overturned and when they are paid compensation it doesn’t go to them. Even worse is that large chunks of the compensation paid by the PO goes to the PO as an outstanding creditor. That is grossly unfair.

Good news! The Secretary of State for Business & Trade has challenged the law and, today, won. All compensation is to be paid to SubPostmasters in full and there is to be no call on it by creditors. The PO gets nothing, and all other creditors will see their debt covered by a separate mechanism funded by the PO.

Halle-bloody-lujah!!!

It’s great to see that things are moving forward even though the Statutory Inquiry isn’t finished.