Post Office - Horizon scandal

[Robster59]

Accidentally? The Post Office has piled mountains of pressure on the convicted SubPostmasters for years. They’ve lied about every aspect of when they knew about bugs and errors. They’ve altered, withheld or deleted evidence. They’ve been horrendously late with Disclosure of documents to the Inquiry. And they’ve bullied subbies mercilessly. And the evidence put to the Inquiry from the main players from the PO And from Fujitsu(yesterday afternoon) beggars belief, often contradicted by documentary evidence… this needs to be a Delorien tort case.

Do I believe this is “accidentally?” They are either the most incompetent management teams I’ve ever come across, or they are beyond despicable. I’ll go for the latter.

To be honest, that thought also went through my mind as well. They will do anything to blur the issue and shift the focus. It does seem far too coincidential.

 

[D-S]

Whoa - some robust ‘exchanges of point of views’ going on to today between the representative of the National Federation of Sub Post Masters and the Inquiry KC now. Haven’t seen anyone fight their corner this hard so far. Will be fireworks when the Core Participants other lawyers have a go later.

 

[Hobbit]

Apologies for being late with yesterday’s review. I was at a mini (practice) Wake for the big man, and slept most of the evening

The first two witnesses yesterday pretty much covered ground already trodden and was very much a reinforcement of previous evidence. Yesterday afternoon’s session saw a forensic accountant originally supporting Jo Hamilton, post-prosecution, latterly working with Sir Alan Bates and the JFSA group. She gave great insight into what was happening from around 2012 onwards. She’s not shy in expressing her views. A good watch.

 

[D-S]

George Thomson is just doubling down on his position despite many documents contradicting his views. Even describing Alan Bates considered letter to the
Union detailing the issues as absolute rubbish when he forwarded it to Paula
Vennels. He also defends his comments to the Post Office when he said the Panorama documentary was b*******t. He is the only person who defends Horizon and in some ways the Post Office. Incendiary stuff.

 

[Hobbit]

George Thomson is just doubling down on his position despite many documents contradicting his views. Even describing Alan Bates considered letter to the
Union detailing the issues as absolute rubbish when he forwarded it to Paula
Vennels. He also defends his comments to the Post Office when he said the Panorama documentary was b*******t. He is the only person who defends Horizon and in some ways the Post Office. Incendiary stuff.

I’ve not caught up on today’s session. Has it come out where at lot of the funding came from for the union’s work with the PO, i.e. it was paid for by the PO?

 

[D-S]

I’ve not caught up on today’s session. Has it come out where at lot of the funding came from for the union’s work with the PO, i.e. it was paid for by the PO?

Yes, Mr.Blake mentions the millions being paid by the PO to the Union - George Thomson vigorously defends the Union’s inability to spend huge amounts of money in legal fees defending his members. Mr.Blake says its not about litigation, even a simple press release in support of them, critical of the PO, might of helped - he pointedly asks George Thomson how much a simple press release would have cost and could they have afforded that.
Fascinating to watch Thomson’s aggressive defence (almost demanding an argument) being countered in a measured, patient, razor sharp manner by the KC whist dismantling him and his arguments document by document.

 

[D-S]

Wow, never seen a Union leader throw his members under the bus. His argument was basically, if the PO is profitable we all keep our jobs so let’s not rock the boat, let’s ignore the miscarriages of justice. Also there’s lots of money sloshing around in Post Offices so it’s very tempting for postmasters to nick it and they have been doing so for years so the deterrents need to be draconian and if some were wrong’c’est la vie’.
Also the Horizon system is very good and robust and deals with billions of transactions and these issues that have devastated the lives of 100’s of people form a tiny fraction of the volume of the data involved so it’s not surprising really.
He also said at the end that he was not going to apologise and toe the current Union line so they had refused to give him legal support.
Mr.Steen made the excellent point that it was a shame that he didn’t use the aggression and belligerence he had shown today in defending his members in his dealings with the PO.
A great watch today with the promise of Gareth Jenkins on the rack all next week.

 

[Ross61]

George Thomson is just doubling down on his position despite many documents contradicting his views. Even describing Alan Bates considered letter to the
Union detailing the issues as absolute rubbish when he forwarded it to Paula
Vennels. He also defends his comments to the Post Office when he said the Panorama documentary was b*******t. He is the only person who defends Horizon and in some ways the Post Office. Incendiary stuff.

I don’t know if he has been seen yet today, but I reckon the CWU man will have a polar opposite view to the idiot Thomson!
I like the way the BBC have called Thomson a “flat earther “ in their report.

 

[Hobbit]

I don’t know if he has been seen yet today, but I reckon the CWU man will have a polar opposite view to the idiot Thomson!
I like the way the BBC have called Thomson a “flat earther “ in their report.

I’ve looked through the schedule, and the CWU man doesn’t appear to be listed. As for Thomson being called a “flat earther,” that’s a monumental insult to flat earthers.

As for him throwing his members under the bus, I was stunned to hear that he forwarded on the email he received from the current General Secretary, Calum Greenhow, which decried the behaviour of the Post Office to the Post Office. What a nasty, backstabbing treacherous individual. The whole vid is quite long.

If you’re interested, view from 4hrs 38min for about 30mins. TBH, you’ll get a flavour of the man fairly quickly.

 

[Ross61]

I’ve looked through the schedule, and the CWU man doesn’t appear to be listed. As for Thomson being called a “flat earther,” that’s a monumental insult to flat earthers.

As for him throwing his members under the bus, I was stunned to hear that he forwarded on the email he received from the current General Secretary, Calum Greenhow, which decried the behaviour of the Post Office to the Post Office. What a nasty, backstabbing treacherous individual. The whole vid is quite long.

If you’re interested, view from 4hrs 38min for about 30mins. TBH, you’ll get a flavour of the man fairly quickly.

The flat earther quote was in the BBC article about today.

This is the quote - David Enright, a lawyer who has represented hundreds of people in connection with the Post Office, said Mr Thomson's "flat earther defence of the horizon computer system defies credulity".

I was thinking today was Thursday, when I looked up the timetable (oops, senior moment) and the CWU man ( Tony Kearns) was listed for yesterday.

 

[D-S]

I’ve looked through the schedule, and the CWU man doesn’t appear to be listed. As for Thomson being called a “flat earther,” that’s a monumental insult to flat earthers.

As for him throwing his members under the bus, I was stunned to hear that he forwarded on the email he received from the current General Secretary, Calum Greenhow, which decried the behaviour of the Post Office to the Post Office. What a nasty, backstabbing treacherous individual. The whole vid is quite long.

If you’re interested, view from 4hrs 38min for about 30mins. TBH, you’ll get a flavour of the man fairly quickly.

I would recommend watching for about 10 minutes or so from 2 hours 40 minutes in when Thomson forwards Alan Bates’ letter to the PO saying it is “rubbish”. He has the nerve to continue attacking Bates - the man has no shame.

 

[Hobbit]

I would recommend watching for about 10 minutes or so from 2 hours 40 minutes in when Thomson forwards Alan Bates’ letter to the PO saying it is “rubbish”. He has the nerve to continue attacking Bates - the man has no shame.

A number prosecutions ended in acquittals. The General Litigation found very much in favour of the subbies. The judge, justice Fraser, severely criticised the PO. All have since had their convictions overturned. And Thomson still supported the PO. The guy is totally obsessed with his original opinion. Blind as a blind bat that is blind. I couldn’t believe it when he launched into Sir Alan Bates, and gave it both barrels. Utterly deluded.

Sam Stein KC questioning George Thomson. 16mins long….

 

[Hobbit]

Whilst the Inquiry is ongoing, and the Police investigation has significantly increased resources for its own investigation, the Law Society is now investigating the professional behaviour of 20 solicitors. I guess it’s a ‘catch all’ list as there’s a couple on there that might get away with a censure or not found to have acted improperly.

However, there’s 4 on there I hope are sweating profusely. Jarnail Singh, Rodric Williams, Chris Aujard & Andy Parsons. Obviously innocent until the case is determined but from what was heard at the Inquiry - squeaky bum time.

 

[clubchamp98]

Whilst the Inquiry is ongoing, and the Police investigation has significantly increased resources for its own investigation, the Law Society is now investigating the professional behaviour of 20 solicitors. I guess it’s a ‘catch all’ list as there’s a couple on there that might get away with a censure or not found to have acted improperly.

However, there’s 4 on there I hope are sweating profusely. Jarnail Singh, Rodric Williams, Chris Aujard & Andy Parsons. Obviously innocent until the case is determined but from what was heard at the Inquiry - squeaky bum time.

Thanks for your great insight into this.

I hadn’t realised “ squeaky bum time “ was a legal term

 

[Voyager EMH]

Thanks for your great insight into this.

I hadn’t realised “ squeaky bum time “ was a legal term

The legal term is probably in Latin.

 

[GreiginFife]

Whilst the Inquiry is ongoing, and the Police investigation has significantly increased resources for its own investigation, the Law Society is now investigating the professional behaviour of 20 solicitors. I guess it’s a ‘catch all’ list as there’s a couple on there that might get away with a censure or not found to have acted improperly.

However, there’s 4 on there I hope are sweating profusely. Jarnail Singh, Rodric Williams, Chris Aujard & Andy Parsons. Obviously innocent until the case is determined but from what was heard at the Inquiry - squeaky bum time.

Funny you post that, I rewatched his evidence yesterday and first thought was that in his determination to make it seem like he was distant from everything that went on and his belligerence in doing so, he painted himself as a thoroughly inept and incompetent solicitor. Second thought was, he’s almost certainly self torpedoed any remaining career he has as a result.

If the law society take the same view (and its hard not to) then he’s finished. And I find it hard to have any sympathy with him or any of the other solicitors that ignored/covered/manipulated evidence and then acted like they were the epitome of stupid afterwards.

These are not dumb people. Morally and ethically derelict yes, but not dumb.

 

[Hobbit]

This coming week…

Tuesday 25 June	Gareth Jenkins - former Distinguished Engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd
Wednesday 26 June	Gareth Jenkins - former Distinguished Engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd
Thursday 27 June	Gareth Jenkins - former Distinguished Engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd
Friday 28 June	Gareth Jenkins - former Distinguished Engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Do you think that the description of 'Distinguished ' will still be there by day 2?

A day 1 picture and day 4 picture may show a bit of ageing.

 

[Voyager EMH]

It is absolutely amazing how he is not in jail already.

I would not be surprised if the cuffs were put on before he leaves the building on Friday (or tomorrow)

False evidence by Post Office’s expert contradicted his own report

Expert suggested bug fix which would alter data without branch knowing, but told court that was impossible.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[D-S]

I hope Gareth comes out swinging and wanting to throw the PO legal team and senior management team under the bus.