Post Office - Horizon scandal

[Hobbit]

This week sees the members of the govt shareholders executive giving evidence. Sounds a bit of an odd one but I’m guessing as the govt is the only shareholder they should have been asking some very awkward questions. And from the evidence from Tim Parker’s session there were some very pointed questions/expectations from the shareholder.

Tuesday 9 July	Mark Russell - Shareholder Executive / UK Government Investments Official Robert Swannell - former Shareholder Executive / UK Government Investments Official
Wednesday 10 July	Tom Cooper - UK Government Investments Official Patrick O’Sullivan - former Shareholder Executive Official
Thursday 11 July	Not sitting
Friday 12 July	Richard Callard - Shareholder Executive / UK Government Investments Official

 

[Hobbit]

Yesterday’s evidence at the Inquiry centred around the shareholder’s annual reports provided by the Post Office to the govt representatives. The shareholder executives were obviously well versed in things like Second Sight and the Panorama programme but in terms of the detail they required the Post Office to be upfront and transparent.

Just as Disclosure to the courts was circumspect, so to was the annual reports & answers to queries raised by the shareholder’s executive. Both the executive representatives commented on how much information and evidence wasn’t shared, and how they were deliberately kept in the dark.

As an aside, I was sat earlier ruminating over how many independent reports were commissioned by the PO, and how the PO deliberately skewed the information supplied the independent companies commissioned to create those reports. Second Sight report, the Helen Rose report, Operation Sparrow report, Operation Zebra report, the Deloitte report. Millions spent on independent reports with a view to controlling the narrative.

And then you have the various firms of solicitors instructed to act on behalf of the PO + the independent barristers instructed by the firms of solicitors to provide advice, many of which were given limited information to steer what that legal advice would look like, again, in an attempt to not only control the narrative but also the direction the judiciary would go. Millions spent again.

 

[Hobbit]

Nick Wallis’s blog on today’s proceedings, including a very interesting exchange about Rodric Williams - he was a senior member of PO’s legal team, and has come across completely amoral in many of the things he did. One that the Law Society might strike off?

Poor Tom

Thomas Knut Glenn Cooper. I kid you knut. Tom Cooper was pitched into the Post Office madness quite late in the scandal. He joined UK Government Investments in 2017, and became UKGI’s man on …

www.postofficescandal.uk

 

[Hobbit]

This week sees the members of the govt shareholders executive giving evidence. Sounds a bit of an odd one but I’m guessing as the govt is the only shareholder they should have been asking some very awkward questions. And from the evidence from Tim Parker’s session there were some very pointed questions/expectations from the shareholder.

Tuesday 9 July	Mark Russell - Shareholder Executive / UK Government Investments Official Robert Swannell - former Shareholder Executive / UK Government Investments Official
Wednesday 10 July	Tom Cooper - UK Government Investments Official Patrick O’Sullivan - former Shareholder Executive Official
Thursday 11 July	Not sitting
Friday 12 July	Richard Callard - Shareholder Executive / UK Government Investments Official

3 days of listening to 5 govt appointed officials, some of which served as non-executive directors on the PO board. In some instances some of the NED’s played both for both sides, the inference being the were protecting the PO from potential collapse as there were so many potential wrongful convictions. In some instances they were either negligent and in others culpable in deliberately perpetuating the mess. Far to often they conspired with the PO to ensure the likes of James Arbuthnot was not told the whole truth.

Richard Callard was interviewed today. Another one who seemed to have difficulty understanding the questions as his answers were often way off at a tangent, or even nowhere near relevant. The Core Participant’s KC had him twisting and turning.

It’s looking like there’ll be a long list of individuals for the Police to interview under caution.

 

[Hobbit]

The majority of witnesses due over the coming weeks are shareholder executives, MP’s, Lords/Ladies and PO ministers.
However, there’s an odd one next Tuesday. Maybe missed his original slot or a late call up. Could be interesting…

Tuesday 16 July

Andy Dunks - former IT Security Analyst at Fujitsu Services Ltd

 

[Hobbit]

The majority of witnesses due over the coming weeks are shareholder executives, MP’s, Lords/Ladies and PO ministers.
However, there’s an odd one next Tuesday. Maybe missed his original slot or a late call up. Could be interesting…

Tuesday 16 July

Andy Dunks - former IT Security Analyst at Fujitsu Services Ltd

And yes, it is interesting. Jason Beer KC carried out the questioning on behalf of the Inquiry in the morning session and 1 hour into the afternoon session when the Core Participant’s solicitors took over. Beer KC tripped him up time and time again. His evidence is so superficial…. But why didn’t the defence teams pick up on this?

He was tasked similarly to Gareth Jenkins to check data from the SubPostmasters Horizon terminals & back office balance transfers etc. The guy did less than half a job time & time again but produced witness statements and gave evidence that he had carried out full tests. Perhaps the best example of this starts at 1 hour 14mins of the afternoon session.

And yet another Fujitsu witness using cut and paste templates to different witness statements. And yet another witness who had parts of their witness statements written by someone else. It’s just so unbelievably corrupt!

Edit! Edit! Edit! OMG! He has just said that the PO edited witness statements… maybe I misheard… this is unbelievable!

 

[Hobbit]

This morning’s session saw Ken (I don’t Recall) McCall, Senior non-executive director giving evidence. He was followed by Kelly Tolhurst MP, under Secretary in the dept of BEIS (trade).

McCall was appointed to the PO board in 2016. At that time he was a full time director with EuropeCar, usually working well beyond the usual Monday to Friday job. He continued in the full time role with EuropeCar but was committed to doing 2 days a month for the PO. Bearing in mind he was appointed to the board to represent the shareholder, the govt, and hold the PO board to account he didn’t do much holding to account at all. There’s multiple examples throughout the vid of him being asked did he question the board on. The best example of this is at 2 hours 20 mins in the vid, and lasts about 5mins…”it wasn’t our responsibility…” He was well nailed on that, and it was left hanging to highlight how poor he upheld his responsibilities.

The afternoon session saw Kelly Tolhurst MP being interviewed. I’ve not bothered posting a vid up of her giving evidence. She was a rabbit in the headlights. Totally clueless. Lots of “er um argh” half sentences. She finished her evidence with “I couldn’t do anything. It was obvious that the whole board need changing.” By all means search it out on YouTube, and be prepared to be shocked at how totally ineffectual she was.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

This morning’s session saw Ken (I don’t Recall) McCall, Senior non-executive director giving evidence. He was followed by Kelly Tolhurst MP, under Secretary in the dept of BEIS (trade).

McCall was appointed to the PO board in 2016. At that time he was a full time director with EuropeCar, usually working well beyond the usual Monday to Friday job. He continued in the full time role with EuropeCar but was committed to doing 2 days a month for the PO. Bearing in mind he was appointed to the board to represent the shareholder, the govt, and hold the PO board to account he didn’t do much holding to account at all. There’s multiple examples throughout the vid of him being asked did he question the board on. The best example of this is at 2 hours 20 mins in the vid, and lasts about 5mins…”it wasn’t our responsibility…” He was well nailed on that, and it was left hanging to highlight how poor he upheld his responsibilities.

The afternoon session saw Kelly Tolhurst MP being interviewed. I’ve not bothered posting a vid up of her giving evidence. She was a rabbit in the headlights. Totally clueless. Lots of “er um argh” half sentences. She finished her evidence with “I couldn’t do anything. It was obvious that the whole board need changing.” By all means search it out on YouTube, and be prepared to be shocked at how totally ineffectual she was.

Its obvious there has been /is some really ineffective persons taking monies from the PO for jobs they obviously eiether couldn't do or know how to do.
All of them should be made to hand back those monies, and wear the shame of their and the PO's actions forever, and that includes my now thankfully ex MP.

 

[Hobbit]

Tomorrow & Friday’s sessions. For those of you who have been following the sessions, you may remember Paula Vennells being questioned about a text message conversation between her & Moya Greene.

Thursday 18 July

The Rt. Hon. Pat McFadden MP - former Minister of State for the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Employment Relations and Postal Affairs); Former Minister of State for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills The Rt. Hon. Sir Edward Davey MP - former Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Employment Relations, Consumer and Postal Affairs)

Friday 19 July

Jo Swinson - former Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Employment Relations, Consumer and Postal Affairs) Dame Moya Greene - former CEO of Royal Mail Group

 

[Hobbit]

Just a post on yesterday and this morning but first a few personal thoughts. As we’re now hearing from the shareholder executives and govt ministers it’s becoming a painful experience. It’s frustrating and generates a fair amount of disgust & anger. No name dropping but I’ve connected with & swapped a number of messages with one of the very well known ex-SPM’s who was prosecuted. The insights have been heart rending. And by chance it turns out a guy I’ve bowled with on numerous occasion is a retired SPM from through that time. I don’t know what he went through, all I can say is he wells up if the subject comes up and leaves the club very quickly. It’s brutal to see it right in front of you.

• Where was the shareholder oversight?

In reality it was close to zero. In the main the non-executive directors got way too close to the PO board, and advocated for the PO. Bearing in mind they reported back to senior Civil Servants & govt ministers, the information was heavily censored and often omitted pertinent facts that could have made a significant difference to outcomes.

• Where was the ministerial oversight?

Pat McFadden & Sir Ed Davey were giving evidence yesterday. McFadden gets a 6/10, and did try very hard to stay on top of his brief but got little support from the non-executive directors. His Private Office picked on more issues than him but were poor in highlighting them - a missed opportunity. His portfolio as a minister in BIS meant he was also juggling other industries. Sir Ed gets a generous 4/10… spoke well yesterday but lacked substance. A skim reader who missed too much detail. Better at bungee jumping.

This morning’s session was with Jo Swinson, who followed Sir Ed into the role. Probably the best of the 3, a 7/10, and not shy in pointing the finger at individuals within PO. There’s lots of information that never got to her desk, some from the Civil Servants but an awful lot from the non-executive directors. But why didn’t she chase so many issues that spiked her concerns. Speaks well but uses 20 words when 10 will do. A very intelligent minister, and well up on her brief but didn’t drive the issues.

I’ve not heard Dame Moya Greene from this afternoon yet but I’m having a beer break watching the golf.

 

[rulefan]

Sir Ed Davey were giving evidence yesterday.Sir Ed gets a generous 4/10…

The papers seemed to have a better impression. Headline "The PO lied to me"

 

[Hobbit]

Yesterday afternoon’s session was with Dame Moya Greene, CEO of Royal Mail Group. She became the Head of RMG in 2010, i.e. right in the middle of Horizon scandal and before the formal separation of RMG from the PO in 2012.

The first Horizon issue was during the launch in 1999, and prosecutions started in the early ‘00’s. A significant number of the private, PO led, prosecutions took place whilst Dame Moya was CEO of the Group with the PO, as a subsidiary, having an MD reporting to her. Time and again she said she wasn’t aware the the PO were conducting private prosecutions, yet when asked a similar question by one of the Core Participant’s solicitors she said she thought the prosecutions were conducted by the PO’s legal team. So which version is your truth Dame Moya?

She seemed quite open to questioning and genuinely sorry for what has gone on but continually threw people under the bus. Gut feel? She knows way more than she let on, and after being tripped up a few times I have my doubts about her absolute innocence. Another senior executive that knowingly let others get their hands dirty because it suited??

 

[chrisd]

Looking back, our local post master (and shop owner) was jailed for theft by the post office. Naturally everyone thought he had his hand in the till and he died not long after release if I remember rightly. He was running 2 post offices/shops at one time so you'd have thought he was one of the more skilled P O employees.

I'm not sure if he was part of this outrage or was truly guilty - but I can guess.

 

[Hobbit]

Ref post #767, Ken I don’t recall McCall’s evidence to the Inquiry.

From that post; “McCall was appointed to the PO board in 2016. At that time he was a full time director with EuropeCar, usually working well beyond the usual Monday to Friday job. He continued in the full time role with EuropeCar but was committed to doing 2 days a month for the PO. Bearing in mind he was appointed to the board to represent the shareholder, the govt, and hold the PO board to account he didn’t do much holding to account at all. There’s multiple examples throughout the vid of him being asked did he question the board on. The best example of this is at 2 hours 20 mins in the vid, and lasts about 5mins…”it wasn’t our responsibility…” He was well nailed on that, and it was left hanging to highlight how poor he upheld his responsibilities.”

I’ve just gone back to Alice Perkins’s evidence on from the 6th June. I was sure there was a briefing note sent by Alice Perkins to a number of board members, not including the non-executive directors, in which she said the non-executive directors were keen that the PO was robust in its defence against the SubPostmasters.

Three things from this; 1) the NED’s were forcibly pushing the PO line, more so than some board members, instead of holding the board to account, and 2) why wasn’t the Govt minister made aware of any of this? 3) why didn’t the senior non-executive director “recall” this in his evidence to the Inquiry?

 

[Hobbit]

The mess that is the current Post Office board, and have they actually learned anything in recent years…

The Chair of the Post Office, Henry Staunton, was sacked around the turn of the year by the Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch when he revealed that he’d been instructed by the govt to pause compensation payments. There followed a fair bit of mud slinging back & forth between him and Badenoch.

The CEO, Nick Read was forced to make a very public apology after saying that he believes at least half of those whose convictions have been quashed are still guilty in his eyes. Strangely enough, He’d already been forced to pay back £54,000 of his bonus which was linked to his handling of the Inquiry. He’s been given a sabbatical on full pay. Tim Parker, ex-chair of the PO was also asked if he agreed with the quashing of convictions. He said he couldn’t say either way till he’d read the judgements - they just don’t learn do they…

Alisdair Cameron, the Finance Director, has been given a £1.2m pay off to take early retirement after a spell of gardening leave following an explosive spat with Nick Read.

Ben Foat, General Counsel for the PO(Head of Law), is on a leave of absence with full pay. He was forced to make a very public apology following the revelation of a document at the Inquiry he’d sent to the PO investigators in which he racially profiled SubPostmasters. He’d used racist terms, “negroid types” and asked the investigators to group suspects based on racial features from the colonial era of the 1800’s. He’d also been subjected to severe criticism by the Chair of the Inquiry, Sir Wyn Williams, for late Disclosure of evidence to the Inquiry. Sir Wyn went further, saying that both written and oral evidence provided by Foat had clearly been provided by others - yet more perjury? He was recalled to appear before the Inquiry again last month but last minute illness meant it’s been postponed till the autumn.

A number of temporary appointments have been made to fill in for those that have left or who are on ‘leave.’ It’s perhaps a bit of a stretch to say the blood letting has started but it’s clear the revolving door is whizzing.

 

[Hobbit]

Oh my head hurts!

With ref the post above, Ben Foat’s initial appearance before the Inquiry was a last minute appearance, and doesn’t appear on the schedule. Apologies, I missed it. His appearance had a very narrow focus in this instance and was very much based around the PO’s appalling Disclosure, Late Disclosure and omission of documents or flooding the Inquiry with irrelevant documents.

It’s very sharp & spikey by Jason Beer KC right from the outset. Put bluntly, it’s bloody and brutal. Foat explains why some documents will have been missed due to the search criteria, and Beer KC lets him dig a HUGE hole for close on 45mins, and then hits him with as the search criteria had x,y,z then reverse search which the document handlers were instructed to do would have found the ‘alleged’ missing documents. It’s beautifully brutal.

Sir Wyn closes the session with Foat like a Headmaster scolding a young boy in no uncertain terms.

For those that dip in and out of the vids I share you will pick up a flavour from the vid below but it’s pretty clear that Jason Beer KC was building right through the evidence. The first 20 mins are sharp, and right through the vid Beer KC continually uses the term racist, racist, racist in reference to a guidance document issued by the PO to its investigators.

There’s about 1hr 45mins of the vid dedicated to questioning Foat.

My head hurts, and a (3rd) brandy is required.

 

[Hobbit]

A name that cropped up in Ben Foat’s session before the Inquiry is that of Dave Posnett. I’d not come across it before but a quick search on the Inquiry’s website show that he gave evidence to the Inquiry in Dec ‘23. As this was before the PO docu-drama, his session was before I started following the Inquiry.

I’ve just had a brief dip in and out of his session. His CV reads that he was a PO investigator, then Investigator team leader, investigator manager, then fraud manager.

Just a couple of relevations from a brief watch. Investigators populated 2 reports when investigating SubPostmasters. One of the reports included everything from the investigations, including anything relating to Horizon. The other report was very much slimmed down, and specifically did not include any reference to Horizon.

If the investigation turned into a prosecution, it was the second report that was disclosed to the defence. The first report that included Horizon issues was never Disclosed.

The second relevation was that an audit of stock and cash was carried out in each investigation where the system showed a cash shortfall. Help me out here… If the system showed a cash shortfall but the stock on hand was higher than the system indicated had been sold, surely there was no theft and what you had was a system accounting error.

Why were there any prosecutions? What am I missing here? I’m genuinely at a loss how to identify any crime here. Stock ‘v’ cash balances out. There is no theft/crime.

 

[Hobbit]

The number of SubPostmasters eligible for compensation is now at over 4,000.

Were over a third of SubPostmasters criminals? Was the PO’s vetting process so bad?

 

[RichA]

Watched a little of the Will Mellor programme last night.
It was interesting to hear from a sub-postmistress who is still doing the job talking about how Horizon is still in use without any significant overhaul. It still produces inexplicable shortfalls; the difference now is that the PO just writes them off as acceptable losses. Utterly bizarre. They'd all be better off going back to handwritten ledgers.

 

[Hobbit]

Watched a little of the Will Mellor programme last night.
It was interesting to hear from a sub-postmistress who is still doing the job talking about how Horizon is still in use without any significant overhaul. It still produces inexplicable shortfalls; the difference now is that the PO just writes them off as acceptable losses. Utterly bizarre. They'd all be better off going back to handwritten ledgers.

The early part of the Inquiry saw numerous SubPostmasters giving witness impact statements. You will have seen the impact on people’s lives from last night’s programme. Imagine that multiplied 100’s of times. Watching the witness impact statements is heartbreaking.