Playing to or below your handicap

[RRidges]

It’s not the fact that this sort of score wins.
It’s the fact that WHS has enabled someone to do it!
But you need a lot of shots to score that and no SF golfer will ever get anywhere near that. Imho.

I don't believe that it's WHS that the cause.
There have been other changes, such as maximum handicap of 54 that are more likely to have caused high winning scores - by rapid improvers.
I'd actually be interested to know how many comps have actually had 45+ stableford scores - and in what categories. I suspect its a lot less than posters think.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our comp last week with max hcap 28 had winning nett of 3 under par (39pts). Could there be any correlation?

 

[KenL]

Our comp last week with max hcap 28 had winning nett of 3 under par (39pts). Could there be any correlation?

Why does your comp have a max handicap. Surely that is unfair to the high handicappers?

 

[Backsticks]

Possibly. Competitions committees can put any handicap limit they wish.
Low hcs have lost a benefial bias in the move to WHS undoubtedly, and that is a good thing. But are probably attributing that to their oerceived difficulty to win and high out of reach scores, when more correctly, it is the removal of the 28hc upper bound 3 or 4 years ago.
As a 12, I assure that 50 points is way beyond me also. I think I had a 43 about 10 years ago. Apart from that, a couple of 38 or 39 in a year is my range. Some years I win a prize, some I dont. But thats about right for an average entry of 100-120 players, 3 prizes, and I compete about 30 times a year.

 

[Jimaroid]

75 * 10 comps is more than enough for a representative sample.

It also suggests, to me, that running handicap comps in Categories is appropriate.

We’ll just disagree, there’s no reason why in this day and age (and the age of the original paper) that the analysis could not be done with a complete set of data.

On the second point, I agree, handicap divisions is the way to go and I’ve never played at a club that doesn’t do that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why does your comp have a max handicap. Surely that is unfair to the high handicappers?

It was Captains Day and the Captain chooses format. I have no idea why he chose to have limit of 28 applied - I can hypothesise but maybe I’ll just ask him. As it happened 14-22 handicappers took first five places but the spread of scoring was compressed to the extent that 27players (inc many low handicappers) were within 5 shots of the best nett.

What is perhaps interesting is that only 2 players in the field of 119 had their course handicap capped at 28. Why more >28 handicappers did not enter I do not know, there was nothing stopping them. It seems possible that they misunderstood the 28 limit thinking they could not enter because their handicap was higher. That would be very unfortunate and I would not want that to happen.

I am surprised, I would have thought that every golfer knows they are capable of a very good day, do the >28ers not appreciate that in the same way…dunno. I find that curious as well as surprising.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think most low handicappers are just wanting reasonable winning scores were they would also have a chance on their best day. When you have players returning with 50 points, then what’s the point?

I’d guess at our place it is almost impossible for a plus golfer to win a board comp now.

Top Stableford score since I've been playing there this season, Saturday comp, white tees, is 39 points. That is not outrageous.

Now, for a plus golfer to win anything other than a scratch comp is going to be mighty difficult but that probably applies everywhere doesn't it?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It seems possible that they misunderstood the 28 limit thinking they could not enter because their handicap was higher. That would be very unfortunate and I would not want that to happen.

I would not be at all surprised if that was the case. Easily done to write one thing and for people to assume another, especially on this particular point. Max handicap 28 is easy to read as only people under 28 can play.

 

[Slab]

I think most low handicappers are just wanting reasonable winning scores were they would also have a chance on their best day. When you have players returning with 50 points, then what’s the point?

I’d guess at our place it is almost impossible for a plus golfer to win a board comp now.

In the big picture analysis it seems WHS is fine, CONGU is fine and if there’s ‘fault’ for a situation existing where low handicappers are not able to content/be competitive, then it seems it lies solely with the club running the comp i.e not having categories, divisions or a.n other mechanism for making sure players of all abilities can ‘compete’

But when a high points score is achieved by a 36+ handicapper very few players seem to blame their club, it seems like its always criticisms of the handicapping system/s, when maybe it should be directed closer to home because the problem and the solution lies at that door

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would not be at all surprised if that was the case. Easily done to write one thing and for people to assume another, especially on this particular point. Max handicap 28 is easy to read as only people under 28 can play.

Whatever the reason it is perhaps instructive that there were no insanely low nett scores.

 

[Beedee]

It was Captains Day and the Captain chooses format. I have no idea why he chose to have limit of 28 applied - I can hypothesise but maybe I’ll just ask him. As it happened 14-22 handicappers took first five places but the spread of scoring was compressed to the extent that 27players (inc many low handicappers) were within 5 shots of the best nett.

What is perhaps interesting is that only 2 players in the field of 119 had their course handicap capped at 28. Why more >28 handicappers did not enter I do not know, there was nothing stopping them. It seems possible that they misunderstood the 28 limit thinking they could not enter because their handicap was higher. That would be very unfortunate and I would not want that to happen.

I am surprised, I would have thought that every golfer knows they are capable of a very good day, do the >28ers not appreciate that in the same way…dunno. I find that curious as well as surprising.

tbh if I was a 29+ at that club I wouldn't have turned up either. To me it screams that the captain doesn't regard cat 5s and 6s (in old money) as golfers. I can understand limiting some comps to certain handicap ranges, but definitely not the Captain's day - a day to bring the whole club together.

 

[Backsticks]

I would not be at all surprised if that was the case. Easily done to write one thing and for people to assume another, especially on this particular point. Max handicap 28 is easy to read as only people under 28 can play.

Its the same thing though really. By not allowing them their true handicap, and imposing a lower one on them, you are effectively telling them the competition 8snt for them.
Judging by the tone of the low men here on competitiveness, I dont think they would be happy if someone off scratch were told that for the Captains prize they would would have to play off +5, yet all those higher than them would play off their true handicaps.

 

[bobmac]

To balance out, why not have a comp for 29 and over?
A club near me used to have 3 separate comps on different days for low, single figures, medium 10-20 and high above 20

 

[Canfordhacker]

What proportion of competitions are won with 50 points ?

More than with 36 pts I would wager.

Why would you expect 36 points to win? If people exceed their handicap 20% of the time, then in a field of 50 you might easily expect 10 to break 36 points.

Though I agree I wouldn't expect 50 points. I haven't seen anything close to that high at my club, before or after WHS.

 

[clubchamp98]

Why would you expect 36 points to win? If people exceed their handicap 20% of the time, then in a field of 50 you might easily expect 10 to break 36 points.

Though I agree I wouldn't expect 50 points. I haven't seen anything close to that high at my club, before or after WHS.

I wouldn’t expect it to win that was my point. ( you would need to read post I was quoting).
But 36 is playing to your handicap.
My club is 130 yrs old , nobody ever shot sub 60 before WHS .
Now it’s 7 times since WHS was introduced.
That’s a problem imo, but most think it’s ok

 

[clubchamp98]

To balance out, why not have a comp for 29 and over?
A club near me used to have 3 separate comps on different days for low, single figures, medium 10-20 and high above 20

Most clubs board comps only have ONE winner.
Divisions etc are fine .
But at the end of the day the scores winning our board comps are getting stupid.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

tbh if I was a 29+ at that club I wouldn't have turned up either. To me it screams that the captain doesn't regard cat 5s and 6s (in old money) as golfers. I can understand limiting some comps to certain handicap ranges, but definitely not the Captain's day - a day to bring the whole club together.

...or perhaps he recognises what a single division nett competition could mean and he would prefer the event to be competitive across the widest handicap range. And as I said - every handicapper can have a special day - and if that just happens to be a 28+ handicapper then the field can be blown away. Maybe he didn't want that to happen. In any case I will ask.

 

[Depreston]

2 and a half months into the season and haven't yet

 

[clubchamp98]

Its the same thing though really. By not allowing them their true handicap, and imposing a lower one on them, you are effectively telling them the competition 8snt for them.
Judging by the tone of the low men here on competitiveness, I dont think they would be happy if someone off scratch were told that for the Captains prize they would would have to play off +5, yet all those higher than them would play off their true handicaps.

I actually agree with you here.
At mine it’s not the 28+ cappers that shoot the low scores .
It’s guys who have been playing for years off 15/17 who have found under WHS they have gone up to 20/22.
So the 45 cappers are not the real problem.

 

[Springveldt]

Top Stableford score since I've been playing there this season, Saturday comp, white tees, is 39 points. That is not outrageous.

Now, for a plus golfer to win anything other than a scratch comp is going to be mighty difficult but that probably applies everywhere doesn't it?

True, I did mention on another thread that the scores this year haven't been outrageous at our place but I'm betting the weather hasn't helped.

Also, the rough is brutal just now. The ball either sinks down and the club gets stuck trying to get it out or it sits on top of it (like it did last night for me in the first cut on 6) and it's like you are trying to hit a shot off of a pink tee as the ball is that high.

There haven't been many great stableford scores but at the same time there haven't been many great gross scores either. All the really low guys are struggling with the course conditions as well it would seem.