Playerscorecard responsibilty

[Old Skier]

Can I ask who you should report to if you believe your club are not applying handicapping correctly?
Since we returned to comps we have had to mark our own cards and deposit them into a bin bag. I noticed that a few people hadn’t returned their cards but when the official result was published they weren’t included so never received the 0.1 back.
I emailed the club to notify them however they took no action. It has happened again on last week’s competition so it seems if you don’t want the 0.1 you just don’t return your card.

As the club have took no action is the next step to notify the county or England golf?

County should be informed if you feel that there are problems as those cards will affect the CSS.
Players should still be signing in for comps either digitally or manually in a book and the necessary action taken against those who continue to fail to return cards.

 

[rosecott]

Can I ask who you should report to if you believe your club are not applying handicapping correctly?
Since we returned to comps we have had to mark our own cards and deposit them into a bin bag. I noticed that a few people hadn’t returned their cards but when the official result was published they weren’t included so never received the 0.1 back.
I emailed the club to notify them however they took no action. It has happened again on last week’s competition so it seems if you don’t want the 0.1 you just don’t return your card.

As the club have took no action is the next step to notify the county or England golf?

Draw the club's attention to this extract from the CONGU manual on a club's responsibilities:

"7.2 Maintain a record, manually or by computer, in which the names of competitors, on the day of the competition, must be entered prior to competing in a Qualifying Competition at the club.
7.3 Ensure, so far as possible, that all cards taken out in Qualifying Competitions are returned to the Handicap Committee including incomplete cards."

So, the club has a responsibility to ensure the submission of cards by all who signed up to the comp or to ascertain the reasons for non-submission and take any appeopriate action.

 

[rulefan]

See also clause 8.10/1 bullet 1

 

[jim8flog]

Can I ask who you should report to if you believe your club are not applying handicapping correctly?
Since we returned to comps we have had to mark our own cards and deposit them into a bin bag. I noticed that a few people hadn’t returned their cards but when the official result was published they weren’t included so never received the 0.1 back.
I emailed the club to notify them however they took no action. It has happened again on last week’s competition so it seems if you don’t want the 0.1 you just don’t return your card.

As the club have took no action is the next step to notify the county or England golf?

If you want to progress it further you can report it to County but remember the end result could be the club losing it's affiliation and thereby you will no longer have an official CONGU handicap.

Have you considered asking if you can help the committee by taking on the responsibility of contacting the players and asking them to return cards?

 

[Old Skier]

If you want to progress it further you can report it to County but remember the end result could be the club losing it's affiliation and thereby you will no longer have an official CONGU handicap.

Have you considered asking if you can help the committee by taking on the responsibility of contacting the players and asking them to return cards?

Not sure not worrying about it is the answer as it could affects the handicaps of others.

 

[Swango1980]

The guy who does ours was willing for me to email the cards via pdf for my handicap after lockdown to avoid having to worry about covid

Surely that sort of thing could be another way to do things ...quick photo of fully signed sealed card and email to the comps email

We do that, most members email me their cards. Even then, it sometimes is impossible to determine what is going on in the card, but at least I have an email address to reply to. Other members have only deposited their cards in the box, so I gave to hope I can identify them

 

[rulefan]

If you want to progress it further you can report it to County but remember the end result could be the club losing it's affiliation and thereby you will no longer have an official CONGU handicap.

I think at this stage that would be very unlikely. Simply a call and a chat with the county secretary to the club manager. Counties are not in the business of jumping on clubs if a nudge will do.

 

[jim8flog]

Not sure not worrying about it is the answer as it could affects the handicaps of others.

I had removed my comment as I gave it more thought.

 

[phils226]

Hi all. My friend was disqualified at the weekend for failing to note his handicap on his card. He did fail to note it next to his name but had included it below where the card show gross then a spot to enter your handicap just above the net score. I appreciate this doesnt help the h/cap secretary but my friend did enter a handicap though - perhaps technically - in the wrong. It feels like this is similar to the name / date scenario mentioned earlier. Do you think he could appeal this?

 

[Swango1980]

Hi all. My friend was disqualified at the weekend for failing to note his handicap on his card. He did fail to note it next to his name but had included it below where the card show gross then a spot to enter your handicap just above the net score. I appreciate this doesnt help the h/cap secretary but my friend did enter a handicap though - perhaps technically - in the wrong. It feels like this is similar to the name / date scenario mentioned earlier. Do you think he could appeal this?

The Rule is "The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap:..."

Furthermore, in Interpretations to this rule, 3.3b/2 states "there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, except that each hole score on the scorecard must be identifiable to the correct hole"

I'd say he has very good grounds to feel hard done by

 

[phils226]

The Rule is "The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap:..."

Furthermore, in Interpretations to this rule, 3.3b/2 states "there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, except that each hole score on the scorecard must be identifiable to the correct hole"

I'd say he has very good grounds to feel hard done by

Thanks - really helpful

 

[Ethan]

The Rule is "The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap:..."

Furthermore, in Interpretations to this rule, 3.3b/2 states "there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, except that each hole score on the scorecard must be identifiable to the correct hole"

I'd say he has very good grounds to feel hard done by

I think he was robbed. If his handicap can be reasonably identified on his card, actually seen, not just inferred (for example by holes marked as shot holes), he has complied with the rule's requirements in my view.

 

[Old Skier]

The Rule is "The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap:..."

Furthermore, in Interpretations to this rule, 3.3b/2 states "there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, except that each hole score on the scorecard must be identifiable to the correct hole"

I'd say he has very good grounds to feel hard done by

Agree but it is becoming the norm now that scorecards are now filled out worse than a kindergarten essay. I wish players would take some responsibility for the appalling way some cards are presented.

 

[Swango1980]

Agree but it is becoming the norm now that scorecards are now filled out worse than a kindergarten essay. I wish players would take some responsibility for the appalling way some cards are presented.

I do not disagree with you on that front. Although I guess the rules are written to ensure cards aren't marked subjectively like a strict school teacher. Otherwise I would definitely deduct shots/points for poor spelling, lack of neatness, etc. I'd give bonus points though for good presentation

 

[Old Skier]

I do not disagree with you on that front. Although I guess the rules are written to ensure cards aren't marked subjectively like a strict school teacher. Otherwise I would definitely deduct shots/points for poor spelling, lack of neatness, etc. I'd give bonus points though for good presentation

Detention, next comp sit offenders down and make them do the cards

 

[jim8flog]

I think he was robbed. If his handicap can be reasonably identified on his card, actually seen, not just inferred (for example by holes marked as shot holes), he has complied with the rule's requirements in my view.

Sorry but you would be incorrect. A players handicap must be on the card. As already said it does not have to be in the box marked " Handicap" as long as it is clear what it is, such as putting it in the 'totals calculation' box.

 

[Ethan]

Sorry but you would be incorrect. A players handicap must be on the card. As already said it does not have to be in the box marked " Handicap" as long as it is clear what it is, such as putting it in the 'totals calculation' box.

Did I not say just that, but in a rather less shirty manner?

 

[Neilds]

Did I not say just that, but in a rather less shirty manner?

You did ?

 

[Swango1980]

Sorry but you would be incorrect. A players handicap must be on the card. As already said it does not have to be in the box marked " Handicap" as long as it is clear what it is, such as putting it in the 'totals calculation' box.

I think that was his original point, the handicap was on the card, just not in the box at the top

 

[phils226]

I think that was his original point, the handicap was on the card, just not in the box at the top

Thanks all - seemes pretty clear though I do get the point about responsibilities. Maybe the H/Cap Sec need to issue a warning such as mess up regularly and the player is suspended from the next Comp?