Play thro - moral dilemma

[drdel]

So our 4ball always completes 18 holes in 3hr45min or less against the Club's time of 4hr.

Yesterday having Teed off we were aware of a 2 ball following us who'd clearly Teed off earlier than their set time. On the next hole (par5) we called them thro. They weren't quick players and we waited several minutes. By the next hole a second 2 ball were in the fairway as we holed out. On the next hole we called this pair through and as a result we found ourselves waiting on the Tee at the next hole - par3.

As we holed out there was yet another 2ball on the Tee.

We also saw another ball finishing up on the previous hole - we elected to keep playing, rarely were they within a shot's distance but the 2ball behind them were waiting.

Our round took over 4hr 25min had we elected to keep allowing the 2ball groups through we'd have been even later.

Morally we know we should have allowed these groups through but to have done so would have added 45 - 50mins to our round.

What would you and your buddies chosen to have done faced with this dilemma? -no moral 'high-ground' lectures needed!

 

[Yant]

I think that the problem you describe is a fault with the clubs booking system as opposed to yourselves or the other groups. What are you supposed to do? there is no right answer because whatever choice you make you will impact someone else.

Our club addresses this by not allowing 4 balls on the course at the same time as 2/3 balls. Easy when you have more than one course to use, granted. But it should be down to the club to manage the bookings more effectively IMO.

 

[Fish]

I think that the problem you describe is a fault with the clubs booking system as opposed to yourselves or the other groups. What are you supposed to do? there is no right answer because whatever choice you make you will impact someone else.

Our club addresses this by not allowing 4 balls on the course at the same time as 2/3 balls.

This.

4-balls & 2-balls shouldn't be going off at the same times from the same 1st tee, they should be split with either 90 minute or 180 minute gaps playing off the 1st & 10th tees in alternation so as they come around, they don't again clog up the course as the OP has described.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Were you in a comp or playing socially?
Unless something drastic happens during a comp at our place very few will need to be allowed through or expect to play through.
If it’s social golf and booked via BRS, you take your chances whether you are a single or 2/3/4 ball.
Being delayed nearly 3/4’s of an hour for letting 2 x 2 balls through seems extreme.

 

[Fish]

Were you in a comp or playing socially?
Unless something drastic happens during a comp at our place very few will need to be allowed through or expect to play through.
If it’s social golf and booked via BRS, you take your chances whether you are a single or 2/3/4 ball.
Being delayed nearly 3/4’s of an hour for letting 2 x 2 balls through seems extreme.

None of this makes sense, the basic etiquette of golf clearly states, that irrelevant of the size of your group, and now even a single player, if you are quicker and waiting on a slower group in front, you should be let through!

We let 2 x 2-balls through yesterday very quickly, they obviously caught up with each other and decided to become a 4-ball, sometimes I think this should be seen more, it always makes me wonder when I see 4 or 5 groups of 2-balls waiting at the 1st or 10th tee that could group together into a 4-ball and get to know more members.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As our starts are 10 minute intervals in the last 5-10 years I can count on one hand the amount of complaints we’ve had about slow play during comps.
If a particular group is struggling for whatever reason they’ll allow groups through.
Pace at weekends seems to be ok with all.

The second point and take your chances, what I mean is we have no rules about size of group and who can and cannot book on BRS, therefore you could book as a 4 ball and have 1/2/3 in flights straight after you.

Again in this instance, people playing socially are very good in letting people through as when they are caught.

We also only have a 1 tee start so don’t have any issues some do with 2 tee starts.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I was nearly in this situation last week. I was part of a 3 ball in a comp. There were 4 x 2 balls, also in the comp behind us. All of our bookings are via BRS, there is no control other than max size for a comp is a 3 ball. We have no pro to control things. I could envisage having to let all 4 x 2 balls through, adding a good 30-40 minutes to our tee time. The annoying thing is we specifically chose our time as soon as it was released so that we finished around a particular time. Allowing all of the groups through would have messed us around completely. As it happens we only had to let 1 group through, we stayed ahead of the others.

I mulled about this possibility as I checked the times that morning and the conclusion I had to come to was that we would let the groups through one by one as the situation arose. I hate being held up so it would not be right to hold others up even if it messed us about, unfairly in my view.

I understand your annoyance in having to let people through but that is part of the downside of playing in a 4 ball.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd always offer priority of play to two balls coming up behind once they have caught us and are clearly waiting regularly. As some of the two balls are not doing anything 'wrong' in respect of the club's tee times I think we just have to accept what we are supposed to do etiquette-wise - it's not the fault of the two balls so we sould not hold them up if we can avoid doing so.

But I wouldn't lose a huge amount of time every time I did that. Wherever possible, a group waving another through continues to play until the following group actually catches up. Only then does the 'slower' group stop, let the following group pass, then once they are out of range or finished the hole - keep playing. Doing this I suspect that letting four groups through would not add an hour to my round - maybe half an hour.

Until a couple of years back we had separately defined 2 ball and 3/4 ball tee times off the 1st tee - with the 10th being the alternative start point. But the very act of groups starting on the 10th was causing issues with groups on the front 9 - and especially playing the 9th - so we scrapped the timetabling. All going off the 1st seemsm to work OK at our place these days - though yes there are issues from time to time.

 

[MrC]

for me it depends on the circumstances

the theory is simple - quicker groups should be allowed to play through however there are a lot of veriables that come into the thought process.

For me - if it is a midweek round or a weekend afternoon round - if i am a 2 ball i want to play through as the course is quieter and i can play in a nice rhythm. Equally if i am in a 4 ball i am happy to let quicker groups through as i dont want to hold anyone up.

However if its a weekend morning round the course is busy and i honestly feel that letting people through takes longer and doesnt always help. For me if i am in a 2 ball then being let through means i try and go quicker thus rushing my shots and I will generally just catch the next group. I would rather play at whatever the pace and enjoy the round. If i am the 4 ball then whilst i always let a 2 ball through - i generally then end up waiting for them as they cant go through the next group and so the benefit is not felt.

Personally - i dont see what all the fuss. Golf can be slow at peak times but then so can a lot of things (shopping, sports centres, parks, etc.). i just allow for this in my timings for the day - weekend 4:30 for a round whereas weekday 3:30 for a round. I just think lets have fun, enjoy the Company and even a bad day on the golf course is a good place to be

getting back to the original post - there is no right and wrong answer. As long as you can have a beer with them after and be comfortable with what you have done then you pass the reasonable behaviour test in my book

 

[MadAdey]

As has been said, I do not think there is a right or a wrong answer. But as stated in the opening post, letting multiple 2-balls through is just going to make your round last forever. But if I'm in a 4 and the course is full ahead of me I'm not going to let the 2-ball through as they are then just going to be stuck infront of me, rather than behind. My opinion is that if you are going out at the weekend then get a 4 together or do not moan about being held up on a busy course.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As has been said, I do not think there is a right or a wrong answer. But as stated in the opening post, letting multiple 2-balls through is just going to make your round last forever. But if I'm in a 4 and the course is full ahead of me I'm not going to let the 2-ball through as they are then just going to be stuck infront of me, rather than behind. My opinion is that if you are going out at the weekend then get a 4 together or do not moan about being held up on a busy course.

I always let the faster group behind me reach that conclusion and make their decision accordingly.

 

[GaryK]

As posted under a different thread last week, playing as a single mid week on a rollup day with an almost empty course, I got stuck behind a 3 ball playing in the rollup comp.
Not once did they offer to play me through despite me arriving at the last 3 tees when the 3 ball had not all tee'd off.
Their excuse? Apparently, comps have priority over social - especially is the "social" is a single. Well, that was what they told me when I confronted them in the clubhouse, but they are clearly living in the past as the R&A Etiquette changed in 2004.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We've had this before especially at weekends. We don't have booked times but we've had two balls rocking up at the back end of a the Saturday roll up going out in three or four balls. The problem is if you are keeping up with the group ahead who in turn are right up behind the group in front of them, is there actually anywhere for the two ball to go and is it actually going to slow the course up further letting them through, waiting and each group backing up. In my example I'd argue that the two ball members have a responsibility to know when peak times are. In the OP's case it seems very obvious they started before their slot and to be honest while I admire the OP's nod to good etiquette, I'm not sure it was the right thing to do and I certainly wouldn't have let others through

 

[williamalex1]

Normally i let quicker games through ASAP, except !! when the course is backed up nose to tail with 3 / 4 balls and every game is being held up.

 

[Lazkir]

On the other side of the coin, I've often been in a two or three ball when we've seen that the course ahead is busy and there's no point in trying to go through.
It's just common sense.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

On the other side of the coin, I've often been in a two or three ball when we've seen that the course ahead is busy and there's no point in trying to go through.
It's just common sense.

This is a good point, you adjust your own pace and slow down a little to try and match those in front.

 

[ScienceBoy]

If the group ahead of a “quicker” group has not lost a hole on the group in front of them should anyone be let through? Especially if the trend counties ahead and no one is more than a shot or two behind?

I tend to think no unless it’s 4balls and a single or a quick two ball, even then let through it’s “when appropriate”. I have never liked the “your not going to get very far” argument for a single amongst a run of four balls.

Really tough to say what’s right or wrong unless one group is clearly thinking they are above all others on the course. I have never liked the “we are in a competition” argument. Sounds far too elitist.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Tricky one, we try to not have to wait on people coming though and will hit tee shots and then let them hit and then walk down slightly behind the group we play though or if we are on the fairway, get then to hit to us and as they are walking down hit ours to the green etc, just in the hope to speed everything up.

We only let groups though who are quicker, the 3 of us are often as quick as a 2 ball, so would just crack on in a situation like yours if I have read it correctly.