Greensomes rule

Titanic

Newbie
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
13
Visit site
In a recent game of Greensomes, our course was designated pick, clean and place on the fairways.
Our playing partners teed off - one (player A) was in the middle of the fairway but fairly short, the other - player B (a much longer hitter) went further and may have ended up in a fairway bunker but we couldn't tell from where we were.
Player B went to player A's ball and while player A continued towards the ball of player B, to save time, player B picked, cleaned and placed player A's ball. It then transpired that players B's ball was on the fairway just short of the bunker. They elected to play that ball and went on to birdie the hole.
Were they correct, or was the first ball, having been picked, cleaned and placed then in play and they should have continued with that ball instead?
Thanks.
 

Crow

Crow Person
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
9,039
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
Good question.

I'd say both balls are in play until one has been chosen but whether the act of cleaning makes that ball chosen I don't know, a helpful reply!
 

KenL

Tour Rookie
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
6,595
Location
East Lothian
Visit site
If it was done to save time, that could make a difference in this case.
But, for me, a cleaned ball that has been placed back down is in play.
 

doublebogey7

Head Pro
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
1,842
Location
Leicester
Visit site
The Rules of Golf don't cover greensomes competition, which make them no more than a bit of fun. Ultimately this would therefore be for your committee to rule but I don't see that there is an equivalence in any format covered by the rules. So I would so as no advantage was gained they ought to rule no penalty.
 

Voyager EMH

Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
5,266
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
First ball that was picked, cleaned and placed was not removed from play. Still in play. Both balls still in play.

Pair must decide which ball to remove from play. Once this is done, other ball is in play on its own.

If they play a stroke with one of the balls, this action removes the other ball from play.
 

chrisd

Major Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
24,810
Location
Kent
Visit site
First ball that was picked, cleaned and placed was not removed from play. Still in play. Both balls still in play.

Pair must decide which ball to remove from play. Once this is done, other ball is in play on its own.

If they play a stroke with one of the balls, this action removes the other ball from play.

That's the way I'd see it.

If a player readies his ball to play while his partner walks ahead to find his ball then I'd say well done to the first player for saving time.
 

mikejohnchapman

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
1,950
Location
Dorset
Visit site
Not uncommon to wait by a shorter ball in greensomes whilst you check on a longer ball. I would think that both balls are options until a stroke is made at one of the two.

As for cleaning one of the balls - just a pace of play issue to me not a statement of intent.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
10,874
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Let's say the shorter ball ended up under a bush. The longer ball might be OB. One player, to save time, takes the penalty drop on shorter ball, putting it back in play and ready for Stroke 3. Once done, the other player finds longer ball in play. Ca they play 2nd shot from longer ball, or must they play 3rd shot from shorter ball?
 

doublebogey7

Head Pro
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
1,842
Location
Leicester
Visit site
Let's say the shorter ball ended up under a bush. The longer ball might be OB. One player, to save time, takes the penalty drop on shorter ball, putting it back in play and ready for Stroke 3. Once done, the other player finds longer ball in play. Ca they play 2nd shot from longer ball, or must they play 3rd shot from shorter ball?
As with the first question the RoG don't appear to cover such a scenario and therefore it would be for the organising committee to Rule. I would be arguing for no penalty as no advantage was sough or gained.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,071
Location
Bristol
Visit site
As with the first question the RoG don't appear to cover such a scenario and therefore it would be for the organising committee to Rule. I would be arguing for no penalty as no advantage was sough or gained.
I would say once the shorter ball has been dropped and the longer ball has been in found, they are both in play. Then just as if both balls are in the middle of the fairway (in play), the team can choose which ball to use.
 

Voyager EMH

Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
5,266
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
Both balls remain in play until one is removed from play.

Removed from play by
1. Ball picked up - clearly removing from play by intention.
2. Stroke played with other ball.

Free drop or penalty drop is not removing from play nor playing a stroke.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D-S

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,548
Visit site
Both balls remain in play until one is removed from play.

Removed from play by
1. Ball picked up - clearly removing from play by intention.
2. Stroke played with other ball.

Free drop or penalty drop is not removing from play nor playing a stroke.

14.4 When Player’s Ball Is Back in Play After Original Ball Was Out of Play​

When a player’s ball in play is lifted from the course or is lost or out of bounds, the ball is no longer in play.

The player has a ball in play again only when:
  • The player plays the original ball or another ball from the teeing area, or
  • The original ball or another ball is replaced, dropped or placed on the course with the intent for that ball to be in play.
 

Voyager EMH

Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
5,266
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site

14.4 When Player’s Ball Is Back in Play After Original Ball Was Out of Play​

When a player’s ball in play is lifted from the course or is lost or out of bounds, the ball is no longer in play.

The player has a ball in play again only when:
  • The player plays the original ball or another ball from the teeing area, or
  • The original ball or another ball is replaced, dropped or placed on the course with the intent for that ball to be in play.
The quoted rule describes the fact that the ball is not in a state of existing "in play" during the process of lifting and dropping or placing.

This is not what is under discussion here. We are debating how and when which of two balls becomes the chosen ball and which becomes the disregarded ball in greensome.

The lifting and dropping of one ball does not remove the other ball from play in greensome.
The lifted and dropped ball is technically "not in play" during the process of lifting and dropping, but is back in a state of "in play" after this action is completed.
This has not removed the other ball in greensome from its state of being "in play".
 

salfordlad

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
874
Visit site
Let's say the shorter ball ended up under a bush. The longer ball might be OB. One player, to save time, takes the penalty drop on shorter ball, putting it back in play and ready for Stroke 3. Once done, the other player finds longer ball in play. Ca they play 2nd shot from longer ball, or must they play 3rd shot from shorter ball?
It's a Committee call, there are arguments both ways. I've never seen guidance that got into that space. That's half the fun of Greensomes, you can make the rules up as you go along, and assist the Committee get through the day by not even raising the question with them. :)
 
Top