play off "too cruel?

[Dodger]

Christ,how easy are you wanting these holes?

These men are at the top of their sport and should relish challenges.....you think that's unfair,it's nothing compared to the exam paper they will sit in 3 weeks time.

He lost the tournament fair and square while is arse dropped out again with a bogey par par double finish.

 

[FourPutt]

By that same logic, you shouldn't lose a tournament by just missing one little putt...

Edit: Er... too slow, this was directed at the "shouldn't lose a tournament for one bad shot" comment.

 

[CrapHacker]

It's a good finish imo and better than it used to be.

Pros should be able to control spin with short irons, Luke got it right by going to the back of the green with spin, Westwood was too far left and too short and didn't take the spin off it - his fault, not the course's. Poor shot execution for an 80yd shot.

Especially when 30 seconds before someone had just shown you exactly what to do from practically the same position

Yes the shot deserved to be punished, but it didn't deserve to hang draw and quarter his whole tournament.

If you pinch a bag of sweets from Tescos you get a fine, if you nick a million in gold bullion, you'll go down for it.

You don't lose everything for a small offence.

It absolutely did deserve it ! The water wasn't a suprise, he know it was there. What's the one thing you'd be thinking in a play off with your opponent on the green ? Probably "don't go in the water". If he couldn't work that out he deserves all he got.

He cleared teh water by ten yards - it's not like he fatted the pitch. Spinning your wedges back is not an exact science. It wasn't a 'bad' shot, it was a 'poor' shot at worst. Like I said, a tricky pitch would have been a fair punishment, losing everthing is too much.

 

[colint]

He cleared the water by ten yards after just watching someone clear it by twice that and finish by the pin. crap or stupid shot, you choose, but he deserved to lose.

 

[FourPutt]

surely that's the point of a sudden death playoff? Otherwise we'd be having 3 or 18 hole playoffs more often.

 

[Tommo21]

Yes the shot deserved to be punished, but it didn't deserve to hang draw and quarter his whole tournament.

If you pinch a bag of sweets from Tescos you get a fine, if you nick a million in gold bullion, you'll go down for it.

You don't lose everything for a small offence.

I like the Tesco and the Million comparison, it’s pi$h though. The whole tournament, what……..he came second.

Reading all the above comments it makes me wonder. Where is the pros of today with a little imagination. Seve is gone only a short time but no one seems to have learned from him. I’m sure he would have played a softer shot in there without having to rely on spin to get near the pin.

 

[CrapHacker]

Christ,how easy are you wanting these holes?

These men are at the top of their sport and should relish challenges.....you think that's unfair,it's nothing compared to the exam paper they will sit in 3 weeks time.

He lost the tournament fair and square while is arse dropped out again with a bogey par par double finish.

I don't want it easy.

I want it fair.

The 18th has been overly tricked up, and it spoilt the climax of a great tournament.

If there was a better risk/reward ratio in going for the 18th and Lee had tried that and failed, I'd be fine about it.

As it was, he hit the green. He would have lost the tournamnet unless he'd chipped in anyway.

But it would have been a satisfying end, not damp squib.

 

[GMan]

It's a good finish imo and better than it used to be.

Pros should be able to control spin with short irons, Luke got it right by going to the back of the green with spin, Westwood was too far left and too short and didn't take the spin off it - his fault, not the course's. Poor shot execution for an 80yd shot.

Especially when 30 seconds before someone had just shown you exactly what to do from practically the same position

Yes the shot deserved to be punished, but it didn't deserve to hang draw and quarter his whole tournament.

If you pinch a bag of sweets from Tescos you get a fine, if you nick a million in gold bullion, you'll go down for it.

You don't lose everything for a small offence.

It absolutely did deserve it ! The water wasn't a suprise, he know it was there. What's the one thing you'd be thinking in a play off with your opponent on the green ? Probably "don't go in the water". If he couldn't work that out he deserves all he got.

He cleared teh water by ten yards - it's not like he fatted the pitch. Spinning your wedges back is not an exact science. It wasn't a 'bad' shot, it was a 'poor' shot at worst. Like I said, a tricky pitch would have been a fair punishment, losing everthing is too much.

But that's why Donald won and is currently better than Westwood. Donald can control spin, as well as pitch the ball on a ten pence piece. Westwood got both of these things wrong, which is why he lost. Professional golf is supposed to be tough - it separates the best from the very good.

 

[FourPutt]

It *is* fair. They both played the exact same hole and Lee played it worse. Hence, he lost the hole and therefore the match.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've commented elsewhere that the 18th to me has been ruined. Not just this year where at least by lowering the green it gave players the option to go for it but last year where it was nigh on impossible tohit and hold it if you took the shot on. I still don't think its a great finishing hole.

Can't buy into all this Westwood bottled it crap. A few of you need to read back some your posts from day one when he was over par and Donald was miles ahead and how you were slagging Westwood off already. Strange how over the next three days Westwood kept moving forward and to be honest Donald, particularly yesterday was lucky to still be in contention. Was it a bad shot by Westwood. Not really. He played it over the flag the same as Donald and was probably a yard at most from his landing spot. Given the fact that the #1 spot was on the line I'd say it was a pretty fair attempt.

I have to say I think on current form these two will eek out a small gap in the rankings due to their consistency and so this spot will swap around between them for a while.

 

[bobmac]

Luke played a great shot and forced Lee to take on the same tough shot with the added pressure knowing Luke was probably going to make a 4.
He went for it and pulled it 3 feet.

 

[Imurg]

The 18th at Wentworth used to be a risk and reward hole i.e go for it in two and have the chance to make eagle,fail and still have the chance to make birdie,or par at worst,now its an all or nothing hole,with only a few players risking the green in two.Target golf.

Sat behnd the 18th for 3 hours today and saw half the field play it.
I'd say half the field went for the green in 2 and only 2 got wet.
Get a good drive away and you have a chance of going for it. A poor drive and you have to lay-up just like any par 5.

Lee didn't play the 18th well today. In regulation play he missed an easy putt and in the play-off he drove right and was lucky to not go in the woods. Luke played it well, played for the lay-up and won it.

 

[richart]

Poor finishing hole. Donald nearly pitches in the bunker and spins back close to the hole. Westwood pitches just over the pin and spins into the water. I want to see players taking on the green in two, not playing for a pitch and putt birdie. Why do they want to make Wentworth like an American course ?

Hang on, don't you think that these players and caddies know how the green slopes? Don't you think they know that hitting a wedge is going to generate spin? Don't you think they know that hitting it too far left runs the risk of spinning back into the water? Don't you think Lee just hit it in the wrong place?

All I've heard all week is that 18 isn't exciting because you can't go for it in 2. The only reason people want to see players going for it in 2 is because there's a chance of going in the drink.

If Westwood had gone for that in 2 and gone in the water from 250yds everyone would say how unlucky he was and wasn't it exciting? Because he went in with a wedge the hole is no good.

Frankly I don't buy it, it's a frigging par 5 for Christ sake it isn't supposed to be easy to hit in two and it isn't supposed to yield a whole load of eagles. It's about time people started to appreciate that there is more to the game of golf than hitting 600yd holes in 2 shots.

Donald hit a quality wedge shot and Westwood couldn't match it, don't blame the hold for that.

In my opinion it is a poor hole. A par 5 that players hit 5 wood, wedge and wedge to. The penalty for taking on the green is too severe. The green is raised so long shots come in low and are almost impossible to stop. It is a finishing hole that is now more likely to produce an anticlimax of a finish, rather than an exciting one.

I personally though Westwood was unlucky, as the green is relatively flat where the pin was placed, as proven by nearly every player missing their putts high including Westwood himself on the 72nd.

As i said it is my opinion, but fortunately i can express it without the need to spit the dummy.

 

[CrapHacker]

But that's why Donald won and is currently better than Westwood. Donald can control spin, as well as pitch the ball on a ten pence piece. Westwood got both of these things wrong, which is why he lost. Professional golf is supposed to be tough - it separates the best from the very good.

Or you could argue that the fifteenth showed why Lee is better than Luke. Luke hit one up the fairway, and managed to cock up the 2nd shot so he had to sink a 6 footer for par. Lee missed his drive but hit a perfect recovery to 3 foot for a tap in birdie.

I think Lee deserved to lose for three reasons:

1) 3 putting the 16th
2) missing his putt on the 72nd
3) not playing to give himself the chance to go for the green in two on the playoff.

I don't think he deserved to lose because he missed his wedge landing spot by a couple of paces. If he had screwed off the green and missed the chip, he would have deserved to lose.

If Lee had sunk the putt on the 72nd, Luke would have needed to go for the green in two to go for the playoff.

But because the course has been tricked up, that would never have happened.

I'll say it again. Bad design led to a poor finish to an exciting tournament.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

If Lee had sunk the putt on the 72nd, Luke would have needed to go for the green in two to go for the playoff.

If Luke's putt on 17 hadn't lipped out, it would never have gone to a playoff. Let's face it, it could have gone either way and I'm sure this isn't the last time we see them going head to head and swapping the no.1 spot

 

[Dodger]

If my Maw had a pair of nuts she'd be my father.

 

[ash01]

Donald beat Westwood fair and sqaure.

Doesn't change the fact that the hole is rubbish.

Fairway wood, 7 iron, wedge?

They might as well have dropped their balls on the fairway 100 yards from the hole and played from there.

Ash!!

 

[Imurg]

Surely the "poor" finish was a result of Lee's inability to execute the shot that was required at the time...?
Luke managed it, many many before him managed it. Lee didn't control his ball well enough - simple as that. He could just as easily under-hit it and got wet on the short side - where's the bad design in that? It was a pretty straight-forward shot for a Tour Pro - even under the amount of pressure they had to withstand.
I think your arguements about the hole being a poor design would have been backed up if more players had taken 3 to get to the green - but I can assure you many tried and almost all made it.

It was pretty exciting from where I was.

 

[Crow]

Play-offs are just as often lost by a poor shot as won by a good one. I don't think the hole is too bad.

As has already been said, Lee's mistake was in playing the three shot stratgey against the best short game player on the planet at the moment, he should have been brave and gone for it in two.

 

[Imurg]

As has already been said, Lee's mistake was in playing the three shot stratgey against the best short game player on the planet at the moment, he should have been brave and gone for it in two.

Didn't they both hit 5 woods off the play-off tee? Lee pushed his virtually into the trees. A poor drive set up a 3-shot stragegy that didn't suit him.

Poor shot execution lost it for Lee. Luke played the percentages - how many times are we told to do that...?