Percentage of Single Digit Handicap Players.

[D-S]

I think you have said that the course is very short and has 6 par 3s?

I think lower handicap players will often overlook joining just on that basis without looking further into the club as a place to join.

I also don’t think that green difficulty is taken into account when rating the course and you say they are the courses main defence which may well be the reason it’s rated lower than you think it should be in comparison to other courses

Green difficulty (level/severity of slope), % surrounded by bunkers, depth of greenside bunkers, slopes around greens, distances from greens to PAs/thick rough/ OB, green size and speed are all taken into account when rating a course.

 

[Klimski]

According to the internet, in the US single handicaps (9.9 or better) make up 30% of handicaps. In the UK it's close to 25%. Which doesn't mean that US golfers are better, but that: in general courses are a bit easier but are not rated as such because length is overvalued in rating courses for better players. And 2: that in the UK under the old handicap system used there, it was harder to lower your handicap as only competition scores counted (if I am correct in this).

 

[Lord Tyrion]

According to the internet, in the US single handicaps (9.9 or better) make up 30% of handicaps. In the UK it's close to 25%. Which doesn't mean that US golfers are better, but that: in general courses are a bit easier but are not rated as such because length is overvalued in rating courses for better players. And 2: that in the UK under the old handicap system used there, it was harder to lower your handicap as only competition scores counted (if I am correct in this).

You could still put general play cards in but it was a hassle and not overly popular so it did not happen much. It is now much easier under the new system and so more gp cards are entered.

I think many would question the accuracy of US handicaps. Certainly the caddies at expensive courses pour a lot of scorn on them after seeing the players in action. Clearly, there are lots of good players in the US, just not as many as they claim

 

[wjemather]

~15% of our male members (~80 out of ~540) currently have a HI of 9.9 or lower (includes away members and ~25 who don't have handicaps).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No idea, would have to ask our golf manager unless there’s another way of finding out. 635 full m&f members.

But looking at the most recent comp - 91 playing off forward tee - combined men and women comp…and handicaps range looks pretty representative of the club but prob slightly more lower handicappers play in this comp pro rata. 20 off SF out of 91 so 22%. On that basis I’m thinking the club figure might be about 20%. We are a very competitive club, and our excellent practice and teaching facilities encourage improvement.

 

[cliveb]

We have 44 out of about 570 (7.7%), so lower than many here.

I suspect it's due to the fact my course is quite flat, not long, and it's easy to play 7, 10 or 14 holes if you can't manage 18. So as a result we have a high proportion of seniors.

 

[Orikoru]

I think you have said that the course is very short and has 6 par 3s?

I think lower handicap players will often overlook joining just on that basis without looking further into the club as a place to join.

I also don’t think that green difficulty is taken into account when rating the course and you say they are the courses main defence which may well be the reason it’s rated lower than you think it should be in comparison to other courses

Agreed on both. It used to be five par 3s but we were forced to shorten one short par 4 into a mid-length par 3, and the course is poorer for it in my opinion. Nobody really likes the new par 3. Plus our course rating took another dent since it was downgraded after that. So many of our greens are a three-putt waiting to happen, but yes, the vastly overriding factor in course ratings is length.

There was talk about lengthening a different par 3 into a short par 4 to bring the par back up to 69, but I'm not sure when or if it'll actually happen.

 

[irip]

Agreed on both. It used to be five par 3s but we were forced to shorten one short par 4 into a mid-length par 3, and the course is poorer for it in my opinion. Nobody really likes the new par 3. Plus our course rating took another dent since it was downgraded after that. So many of our greens are a three-putt waiting to happen, but yes, the vastly overriding factor in course ratings is length.

There was talk about lengthening a different par 3 into a short par 4 to bring the par back up to 69, but I'm not sure when or if it'll actually happen.

I actually like a shorter course where you have to think and play for position to both fairway and green.

Keep hitting driver then 3 wood/hybrid into par 4s gets boring if it’s every hole

 

[Orikoru]

I actually like a shorter course where you have to think and play for position to both fairway and green.

Keep hitting driver then 3 wood/hybrid into par 4s gets boring if it’s every hole

Yeah, I feel exactly the same. Since I'm not the longest hitter in the world, I'm not a big fan of a course where I have to hit driver 12 or 13 times. At my place I've just been hitting it around 7 times in the summer. That'll go back to 8 or 9 now we're getting into winter though.

 

[pendodave]

We're around 22%
In my mind, that's a little high. Possibly caused by having a very high slope - I'm 8.8, but have a course h/c of 11 which (I feel) is probably a more accurate reflection of where I'm at. Also explains why I'm rubbish at away courses where I'm often playing off 8 or 9 .

 

[backwoodsman]

143 out of about 750 male members - a tad under 20%

 

[cliveb]

.Agreed on both. It used to be five par 3s but we were forced to shorten one short par 4 into a mid-length par 3, and the course is poorer for it in my opinion.

Yes, a real shame. The old par 4 14th was a great risk/reward hole.
Question is: now the deed has been done, has it stopped the vendetta against the club by the owner of the house behind the old 14th green?
I've got this horrible feeling he'll find something else to moan about.

 

[Orikoru]

Yes, a real shame. The old par 4 14th was a great risk/reward hole.
Question is: now the deed has been done, has it stopped the vendetta against the club by the owner of the house behind the old 14th green?
I've got this horrible feeling he'll find something else to moan about.

Yeah, the old 14th was well-placed coming right before the 210-yard par 3. Now it's just two very difficult par 3s back-to-back.

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't heard anything about him lately. That land where the old green was is just going to waste. I reckon they should put a proper chipping area there, since the actual chipping area is rubbish.

 

[sunshine]

Green difficulty (level/severity of slope), % surrounded by bunkers, depth of greenside bunkers, slopes around greens, distances from greens to PAs/thick rough/ OB, green size and speed are all taken into account when rating a course.

My gut feel is not enough weighting is given to difficulty of green complexes. There are a few times I have played courses of a similar length and slope rating, when one of them is much tougher due to tricky greens.

 

[sunshine]

According to the internet, in the US single handicaps (9.9 or better) make up 30% of handicaps. In the UK it's close to 25%. Which doesn't mean that US golfers are better, but that: in general courses are a bit easier but are not rated as such because length is overvalued in rating courses for better players. And 2: that in the UK under the old handicap system used there, it was harder to lower your handicap as only competition scores counted (if I am correct in this).

I think in a large mature golf market like UK and US, the golf population is likely to be a similar standard. Lower average handicap is likely due to cultural reasons (e.g. adoption of rules, playing format) rather than skill level.

On the other hand you would expect to see a difference in a newer golf market, where there may be more beginner golfers. Maybe there are even some countries where access to handicap counting competition play is limited to low handicap golfers.

 

[Neilds]

My gut feel is not enough weighting is given to difficulty of green complexes. There are a few times I have played courses of a similar length and slope rating, when one of them is much tougher due to tricky greens.

Greens are only tricky if you hit it to the wrong part

 

[D-S]

My gut feel is not enough weighting is given to difficulty of green complexes. There are a few times I have played courses of a similar length and slope rating, when one of them is much tougher due to tricky greens.

You could well be right about the weighting however I was merely responding to a comment about greens difficulty not being taken into account.
There appears from time to time the belief that raters just stroll around a course and randomly make up a number over coffee afterwards. I just always like to point out that a lot goes into it, whether or not you are happy with what comes out of it is of course entirely down to you.
It’s also worth noting that the process has to be the same (or as close to as possible) the world over, so it has to be as objective as possible.
Also just a point re Orikoru’s point on his club’s greens, there is no legislating for stupid/ill advised or downright unplayable pin positions which have been cited on here in the past, you can make any course ridiculously difficult by setting it up wrong.

 

[D-S]

I think in a large mature golf market like UK and US, the golf population is likely to be a similar standard. Lower average handicap is likely due to cultural reasons (e.g. adoption of rules, playing format) rather than skill level.

On the other hand you would expect to see a difference in a newer golf market, where there may be more beginner golfers. Maybe there are even some countries where access to handicap counting competition play is limited to low handicap golfers.

I believe that in general competition scores tend to be slightly higher on average for all players than GP cards. So, if you play in a country which has fewer competitions as a proportion of cards entered for handicap, then necessarily handicap indexes will be slightly lower.

 

[sunshine]

Yeah I think both of these. Our course ratings are stupidly low, so there are probably another 10 or 12 players who could easily be single figures if they played at a different club. And very good players might be inclined to go and play at a longer course where they get an extra shot or two.

Sorry, but I don't think people join a golf club based on slope rating and number of shots they get.

No offence, but Grims Dyke is a short course which appeals to high handicappers. There are loads of courses in the area and Grims Dyke has a role to play as a gentle entry level course for beginners or older golfers. Better players will head to Moor Park, Sandy Lodge or Pinner for a more challenging place to play.

 

[sunshine]

I believe that in general competition scores tend to be slightly higher on average for all players than GP cards. So, if you play in a country which has fewer competitions as a proportion of cards entered for handicap, then necessarily handicap indexes will be slightly lower.

Yes exactly