Penalty for Lowry

[Orikoru]

Agreed, it becomes more of a principal. Attempting to place is 5mm to the left in the rough is nigh on impossible

I think a fairer outcome would have been a 1 shot penalty, given that the ball did move even if it was only 2mm. But recognising that it's impossible to replace it perfectly in that sort of lie anyway - use a bit of common sense and not give the other shot penalty. Common sense has no place in the rules of golf though as we know.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

Agreed, it becomes more of a principal. Attempting to place is 5mm to the left in the rough is nigh on impossible

that's always the case no matter how far the ball moved. You're never going to get it the exact mil and that's covered in the rules.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I think a fairer outcome would have been a 1 shot penalty, given that the ball did move even if it was only 2mm. But recognising that it's impossible to replace it perfectly in that sort of lie anyway - use a bit of common sense and not give the other shot penalty. Common sense has no place in the rules of golf though as we know.

The rule is for a 2 shot penalty - the “penalties” for any rules breaks are set in stone

As for “common sense” - everyone’s “common sense” has different dynamics

 

[Orikoru]

The rule is for a 2 shot penalty - the “penalties” for any rules breaks are set in stone

As for “common sense” - everyone’s “common sense” has different dynamics

He could easily argue that where the ball ended up was already as close to the original lie as he could possibly get it - given that he's swiped away the blade of grass that was holding it up, with his practice swing. So bending down and trying to replace it would just be going through the motions really. Pointless.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

I think a fairer outcome would have been a 1 shot penalty, given that the ball did move even if it was only 2mm. But recognising that it's impossible to replace it perfectly in that sort of lie anyway - use a bit of common sense and not give the other shot penalty. Common sense has no place in the rules of golf though as we know.

But it wasn't only 2mm was it. You'd have trouble discerning that with the naked eye test. Allowing some kind of "common sense" just opens it up for abuse.

 

[Orikoru]

But it wasn't only 2mm was it. You'd have trouble discerning that with the naked eye test. Allowing some kind of "common sense" just opens it up for abuse.

Not really, because I'm taking about common sense from the officials reviewing it, not the golfer trying to apply his own common sense to the situation. They just need to recognise that it would have been impossible to replace it perfectly anyway so pointless trying.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

He could easily argue that where the ball ended up was already as close to the original lie as he could possibly get it - given that he's swiped away the blade of grass that was holding it up, with his practice swing. So bending down and trying to replace it would just be going through the motions really. Pointless.

“As close”

Again the ball moved , he didn’t spot , the lie was changed even if it’s a small change and it may have improved

It’s just unfortunate that he didn’t notice it

 

[Deleted member 35927]

Not really, because I'm taking about common sense from the officials reviewing it, not the golfer trying to apply his own common sense to the situation. They just need to recognise that it would have been impossible to replace it perfectly anyway so pointless trying.

But thats literally always the case. You're never getting mm precision and the rules accept that. But you have to try

 

[Swango1980]

Not really, because I'm taking about common sense from the officials reviewing it, not the golfer trying to apply his own common sense to the situation. They just need to recognise that it would have been impossible to replace it perfectly anyway so pointless trying.

I can just imagine a time when common sense is allowed. Some will say, "ohh look, the Irish referee gave Lowry the benefit of the doubt, but if it was Patrick Reed they'd have hit him with a penalty"

And had it been McIlroy getting away with a penalty at Portrush, and had he gone on to win, then I can guarantee that the opinion of the referee would be discussed at length by many.

There are plenty of times the rules can be considered "unfair" in golf. You could probably evaluate every single rule, and think of a scenario where the penalty is harsh relative to other scenarios. However, by setting the rules out in such a way that almost everything is as black and white as possible, you ultimately have the fairest set of rules that have been derived over many many years. If we start allowing referees to use their own opinion and subjectivity, then we are just moving towards footballs in referee. And we know how fans treat them.

 

[Orikoru]

I can just imagine a time when common sense is allowed. Some will say, "ohh look, the Irish referee gave Lowry the benefit of the doubt, but if it was Patrick Reed they'd have hit him with a penalty"

And had it been McIlroy getting away with a penalty at Portrush, and had he gone on to win, then I can guarantee that the opinion of the referee would be discussed at length by many.

There are plenty of times the rules can be considered "unfair" in golf. You could probably evaluate every single rule, and think of a scenario where the penalty is harsh relative to other scenarios. However, by setting the rules out in such a way that almost everything is as black and white as possible, you ultimately have the fairest set of rules that have been derived over many many years. If we start allowing referees to use their own opinion and subjectivity, then we are just moving towards footballs in referee. And we know how fans treat them.

Don't think it's fair at all to get a penalty you can do absolutely nothing about. But we'll have to agree to differ on that.

 

[bobmac]

It wasn't zoomed in slo motion though was it, that's the whole point. You really need to refresh yourself on how the rules stand now with regards to TV replays.

No I don't, I'm not the referee

In your "perfect" rules change, why would you give Lowry a warning when you obviously feel he did absolutely nothing wrong?

I didn't say he did nothing wrong, I said he thought he'd done nothing wrong, so basically a slapped wrist...don't do it again

But you can't say no advantage gained because you can never know. Just because it moved a small amount it doesn't mean no advantage.

That's what the referees do, make decisions

And had it been McIlroy getting away with a penalty at Portrush, and had he gone on to win, then I can guarantee that the opinion of the referee would be discussed at length by many.

That's why the rules committee would decide, not just one referee.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

No I don't, I'm not the referee

I didn't say he did nothing wrong, I said he thought he'd done nothing wrong, so basically a slapped wrist...don't do it again

That's what the referees do, make decisions

That's why the rules committee would decide, not just one referee.

You do , because you clearly don't understand the rules regarding TV replays as they stand today , same for a few it seems.

 

[Swango1980]

Don't think it's fair at all to get a penalty you can do absolutely nothing about. But we'll have to agree to differ on that.

What do you mean he can do absolutely nothing about it. He could have had a practice swing further away from the ball.

I'm sure this chap cursed his luck as well. But, it was only an accident...

 

[Swango1980]

I didn't say he did nothing wrong, I said he thought he'd done nothing wrong, so basically a slapped wrist...don't do it again

So, you think he DID do something wrong. But can avoid penalty because he didn't see it. Had he seen it, then a penalty would apply???

I certainly hope you never get on the board of people that reviews the Rules of Golf

 

[Deleted member 35927]

What do you mean he can do absolutely nothing about it. He could have had a practice swing further away from the ball.

I'm sure this chap cursed his luck as well. But, it was only an accident...

Also

https://share.google/AHFUnLNR09uqm8r8C

Rose did the same , didn't mean it so no pen right

 

[bobmac]

So, you think he DID do something wrong. But can avoid penalty because he didn't see it. Had he seen it, then a penalty would apply???

I'm not going to keep repeating myself.
I will finish with one question.....
Do you think Lowry deserved the same penalty as Patrick Reed in the video in post no. 127?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I'm not going to keep repeating myself.
I will finish with one question.....
Do you think Lowry deserved the same penalty as Patrick Reed in the video in post no. 127?

Did they break the same rule ?

 

[bobmac]

Did they break the same rule ?

Irrelevant

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Irrelevant

No it’s not - there is a rule , they break it and then they are penalised for the rule break

 

[bobmac]

No it’s not - there is a rule , they break it and then they are penalised for the rule break

So you agree, they both deserve the 2 shot penalty?