Par 3's and their stroke index

[Captainron]

Reading Homer's post about his half glass full round and how he stuffed up on 2 of the par 3's got me thinking.

On the majority of courses I have played the par 3's are assigned 15,16,17 and 18 as stroke indexes. I think this is just stupid! Many are tricked up with water and numerous bunkers to make them that bit harder. I can't stand being on the tee of a 200 yard par 3 playing into the prevailing wind to see that it has been assigned stroke index 17! Then walking onto a 490 yard par 5 downwind with a stroke index of 7? What the hell is up?

 

[Val]

I agree some Par 3's have incorrect SI, but unless clubs look and review SI regularly then nothing will change, it's not right that they are at the so called easy end of the scale but unless you are playing a lot of match play comps it shouldn't matter too much.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Interesting point. The 8th that I mucked up (pushed right into a bunker - hadn't been raked and like playing off packed concrete with the obvious result) is SI 18 and only 138 yards. Apart from bunkers short left and right and one right there is nothing to it.

Our 6th though is SI 14 and 178 yards but has OB tight right for the first 140 yard, OB left the length of the hole, ditch short for anything topped and a bunker right of the green. I think for me its the fact that the trees are so close on the right and I hit right to left that becomes a mental issue. If I get quick and hook it OB left is the usual result.

The 8th I think is correctly assigned its SI but I'm not so sure about the 6th. Ironically as soon as I get a shot on it I seem to relax and play it well again. Only 0.4 back and I'm off 14 so we'll see what happens

 

[thecraw]

Our 16th is stroke index 6 and I wish it was lower at times. Its a tough tough cookie!

 

[philly169]

Our 4th, signature hole is 178 yards SI 1 from whites, water in front of the tee, small fairway with water on the right and back, tree line to the left with water all down the left beyond trees.

Tricky hole as I always hook to the left, great when you hit the green though! Points win prizes!

 

[rosecott]

Interestingly, in the CONGU recommendations on SI allocation, Stroke Index 4 is suggested as a par 3.

 

[Oddsocks]

Interestingly, in the CONGU recommendations on SI allocation, Stroke Index 4 is suggested as a par 3.

See this is weird, we have 5 par 3s which are si 18/17/16/15/14 respectively, what's weird is our 3rd can be tricky as hell as can the 12th, both are harder than our 4th 5th and 13th which are all par 4s, our 8th can be tricky too, the only common thing is we don't have a par3 over 175 yards which is why I assume their high stroke index's

I drop more shots on our par 3s than I do on the par 4s

 

[Imurg]

There's still the common misconception that SI relates to the difficulty of the hole - it does but difficulty is way down the list of reasons SI should be allocated.
It's primary function is to spread shots out over the whole round, there are guidelines - for example SI 1-8 shouldn't be at the beginning or the end of a 9 hole loop or something like that.
Trouble is most clubs just take the average score form each hole and the hardest gets SI 1.
Play some clubs that do it right and you'll get a straight forward 350 yard par 4 as SI 1 and a tricky par 3 as SI 15.

There really is a case for 2 sets of SI. One for Matchplay and one for Stableford/Strokeplay.....

 

[Oddsocks]

I'd agree with that, our si1 and 2 are both easier holes than the si 3, to me logically the si should relate to difficulty and nothing else

 

[Imurg]

I'd agree with that, our si1 and 2 are both easier holes than the si 3, to me logically the si should relate to difficulty and nothing else

Only in Strokeplay.
In Matchplay it's done to make sure that if you're giving 9 shots you don't give them on consecutive holes.

 

[Oddsocks]

Hence sp & mp si's. Got ya!

 

[SGC001]

Par 3's can play different for players of differening standards. Often they can be difficult to par yet hard to make double on so can play relatively tougher for the low handicapper and easier for the higher handicapper. Similarly par 5's can give teh higher handicapper more opportunity to get into trouble, where the lower player may well get their best birdie chances.

Look out on tour, particuarly at the majors when they show you the players score relative to par onthe par 3's, 4's and 5's. The players in contention tend to be under on the 5's, levelish on the 4's and over on the 3's.

On top of that stroke indexes are pretty much mucked up bcause they tend not to reflect the difficulty of the hole. I can understand the idea of spreading out the shots in matchplay and not having low or high indexes on the first few or last holes. However, it just doesn't work in comps such as betterballs and imo contributes to some of the daft scores that can come in. Particualry if you play in a mixed event where some of the ladies tee positions can make a mockery of certain holes as they certainly used to be played off the mens indexes.

In medals it doesn't matter, in stabs it can have an impact; but in beterballs with a partner who could take care of your dodgy holes, it can really start to affect scoring.

 

[rosecott]

However, it just doesn't work in comps such as betterballs and imo contributes to some of the daft scores that can come in.

Two points:

It's the same for everyone.
Swings and roundabouts.

 

[BTatHome]

with the exception of matchplay, does the SI make any difference to your score?

Surely you get the same number of strokes whether your playing Stableford, or Medal. So you'll get the same benefit of points/shots when your handicap is taken into consideration.

Am I missing the maths? Or does the maths only matter when people are scoring blobs ?

 

[Oddsocks]

BT, i think imurgs point is if for example you get 6 shots in m/p, and the first five holes are all lowe stroke index's, you opponent could effectively 5 down after 5, which is sole destroying, but evenly spreading the stroke indexs, it should mean your shots are spread equally(ish) across 18 holes making it fairer.

 

[BTatHome]

BT, i think imurgs point is if for example you get 6 shots in m/p, and the first five holes are all lowe stroke index's, you opponent could effectively 5 down after 5, which is sole destroying, but evenly spreading the stroke indexs, it should mean your shots are spread equally(ish) across 18 holes making it fairer.

Yeah i understand the matchplay argument.

For me I just don't think about the Si when playing anything other than matchplay though. So I just wondered why people would be upset where the higher SI's were.

I assume it down to the blobs, so if you meet a tough hole and it has a high SI then there is a possibility you don;t get to score anything ... but surely that just means you have an easier hole somewhere else where you do get a shot and hence you even out over the round.

 

[Oddsocks]

BT, it it to try and keep games alive right up until the 18th, instead of having them over and done by 14.

 

[Region3]

For clubs that do (wrongly) assign SI's relative to difficulty I think sometimes the par 3's should be much lower. Using my course as an example, our 8th is about 180yds, OOB right and big trees left. Also 2 raised bunkers short so you can't see the green, 1 bunker left and 2 right. SI 11 and it is imo the hardest approach shot on the course. Off the yellows it is also the longest approach shot I would expect to have during the whole round.

On the other end of the scale I remember a par 3 on the Bracken course at Woodhall Spa that was about 120yds and a single figure SI.

 

[Bratty]

Our par 3s are as follows:
4th = 18, 8th = 10, 11th = 13, 13th = 15.

But for sheer incredulity when looking at a scorecard, my favourite is the 13th at High Elms. Measures 224 (whites), 213 (yellows) and 206 (reds), and has a S.I. of.... 2!!!

But when you get there, you know exactly why it's the 2nd hardest hole!!!

 

[Oddsocks]

Our par 3s are as follows:
4th = 18, 8th = 10, 11th = 13, 13th = 15.

But for sheer incredulity when looking at a scorecard, my favourite is the 13th at High Elms. Measures 224 (whites), 213 (yellows) and 206 (reds), and has a S.I. of.... 2!!!

But when you get there, you know exactly why it's the 2nd hardest hole!!!

that 13th is one bitch of a hole, a 4 if never sniffed at.