Pace Of Play - what can be done to improve it

[Hobbit]

I'd like players to have to sign back in with the pro, or a club representative, at the end of a competition round. If the player/group is outside of a time accepted as reasonable for the course they get a 2 stroke penalty and a 'yellow card.' 3 yellow cards in two months sees a 2 comp ban. Harsh but it'll sort the problem.

 

[Snelly]

Ideas to speed up play.

Weekly shot penalties to pros on the tours who are slow - i.e. taking longer than 3.5 hours for 18 holes as a two ball Start with Speith, Woods etc. The higher profile,the better. They would speed up and the avalanche of publicity would have a global effect on the golf world right down to the lowest level.



Hammer home the message that when it is your turn to play your shot, you have to be ready to hit the ball. Not be ready to start your two minutes of stupid faffing about.

It is your honour, hit the ball - NOW! If everyone understood this and put it into practice, slow play would simply disappear.

This simple message should come through all media platforms with mind numbing frequency from the R&A, the manufacturers, the golfing press, the golf tours and all golfers around the world. Spread the word. It will work....

 

[Snelly]

I'd like players to have to sign back in with the pro, or a club representative, at the end of a competition round. If the player/group is outside of a time accepted as reasonable for the course they get a 2 stroke penalty and a 'yellow card.' 3 yellow cards in two months sees a 2 comp ban. Harsh but it'll sort the problem.

Great idea. I support this 100%.

 

[sportsbob]

I agree that education of players would save a bit of time, marking cards on the next tee, being ready to play when it is your turn, playing ready golf etc. but I think courses could make changes in order to speed up play. I am not talking about reducing yardages on holes or anything like that. The main reason for delays on golf courses is people looking for their balls. Not only does it slow the individual down, but those playing with you whilst they search for the partners ball - (not being ready to play). We are not all pros playing, we don't expect to hit every fairway so we do go off line. Picture this, you hit your drive, miss the fairway and end up in the tree line. You then spend 3-4 minutes looking for the ball as not only are you in amongst the trees, but you have ankle deep rough. How many courses are like this? Surely the trees are enough of a hindrance so why do courses have think rough as well. The less time we spend looking for balls, the quicker the rounds will be... for everyone

 

[Deleted member 16999]

One way to help is to stop comparing the speed of the professional game to the amatuer game, they are playing for their livelihoods and hundreds of millions of pounds and if any amatuer was risking that they'd be slower, if you want to speed the top players up, let them use buggies, I don't care if Rory walks floats or is driven to his ball, but once there, leave him be to take the shot.

 

[FairwayDodger]

It always seems to me that the course is particularly slow when there is a men's medal on. One of the reasons, I think, is the insistence that all players play from the longest, most difficult tee positions regardless of their ability (or inability) to do so.

I think the idea of all men playing off the white tees in all comps needs to be scrapped. Only players of a proven level of ability should be playing from there, higher handicaps can go off the yellows. In fact, get the reds measured for a male SSS and put the high handicaps off from there. Adjust scores based on SSS for the tees used by the player.

 

[delc]

Great idea. I support this 100%.

My playing group had a fairly slow round yesterday. This was mainly due to going into lots of bunkers, which had to be raked after the shot, and searching for balls in the knee high rough our course insists on having. Obviously you should leave bunkers in the same condition, or better, than you found them. Fortunately we didn't hold up the following group, because they were even slower! Being mostly old gits, at least we weren't emulating the mannerisms and pre-shot routines of the tour pros, so our round took just over 4 hours and not 6 hours!

 

[bobmac]

We are all different
Some folk like to play quickly others prefer a more sedate wander round.
Who is right?
Both/neither and who are we to TELL people to walk faster/play quicker if they dont want to.

What annoys people as far as I can see is not how long their game takes, it's how long they spend waiting.

The only way I can see of improving things is to make sure the slow folk and the sprinters are kept apart with the medium pace in the middle.
It would be daft to put the slower players out first as that would set a slow pace for the rest of the day.
So it has to be the faster groups out first, followed by the medium pace and lastly, the wanderers.

How do you work out who fits in which group?
No idea.
Maybe a volunteer type thing which is monitored throughout the season
Maybe everyone gets a pace card which means you can play at your own speed so the green card holders go out first, (say 7.30 till 9) followed by the amber (9 till 1) and bringing up the rear the red card holders.
And lets face it, the wanderers will mostly be of a 'certain age' who can play golf at any time.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I must be one of the lucky ones, it isn't really an issue at my course.

There are a couple of bottleneck holes that might require a wait of a minute or two but nothing major.

A very slow round would be longer than 4:15 and normally even in medal conditions, about 3:45 to 4.

Course design plays a big part in slow play in my opinion. Lost balls are a big factor (especially when it's not obvious the ball will be lost). The biggest source of bottlenecks though I would say is long par 3s, I'm not a big fan of them, take for example a 220 yard hole, for the majority, or a lot at least, that's effectively a par 4 as either they lack the distance or they lack the accuracy with a club long enough to reach. However, only one group can be on that hole at a time for obvious reasons.

My club have made our long par 3 a call on hole. Once your group is on the green you have to call the next group to tee off. You can then putt out while they walk down. Works very well.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I have played 4 ball medals almost every summer Saturday for 23 years at our place. I can count on my fingers the number of times it has taken shorter than 3:45 or longer than 4:15. People moan all the time and I've never spoken to anyone who is slow or even partly responsible for the perceived delays.....funny that!

The single biggest factor in the length of round at our place is the playability of the course. The course is noticeably tougher than it was 5/6 years ago due to changes in policy (less cutting - more rough) by the operator (it's a muni) and I guess the average time would now be in the "just over 4 hours" bracket rather than the "just under 4 hours" it was for 15 years before these changes. It really only takes a few groups to get in trouble, looking for balls etc maybe having to wave groups through to completely block the course for a while resulting in bottlenecks. Waving through isn't the answer on busy courses.....it's great if you are the fist group behind but overall it slows things down even further unless there are natural gaps in the field.....at our course there rarely are. Much better to simply get a jog on if you get behind....that bit isn't rocket science but so many groups still dawdle along when they are clearly out of place on the course.

 

[MikeH]

Hi Mike just a question,is this not going over old ground?

I have noticed the magazine has covered this on numerous occasions and I do remember yourself in the editors notes covering slow play.

We have also covered it on numerous occasions on this forum and the answers will always be the same.

Imo until some actions are taken and shots added to scores and someone actually stands up to the big players and not 14 year old kids it could be a problem that will not go away soon.

when the problem gets solved we'll stop devoting space to the issue. Until then we feel it's a topic that needs to raised on a regular basis.

There have been several significant bits of research done in the last year that we want to highlight and the content we will producing this time is more practical with some advice for golfers, clubs and committees and will span print and digtial channels

 

[Canary_Yellow]

In four ball medal conditions, I wouldn't say that's slow personally. Unless your course is short?

How long in a round of that length (just over 4 hours) is spent waiting for the group in front to clear? I'd be surprised if it was much more than 5 or 10 minutes.

Edit: this was a response to fyldewhite

 

[nickjdavis]

To answer the OP, until clubs carry out a proper assessment of the pace dictated by your course considering its chokepoints, season, rough, tee gaps, weather, groups, number of players etc etc & that pace is communicated to players, we’re all going in half blind and left to make up our own mind about what’s slow and if we actually see something that doesn’t fit with our own ‘pace model’ then it/him/her are gonna cop it and be blamed not only for the slow pace in totality but also for any poor shot we make thereafter because it/they ‘broke our rhythm’ (which ironically will slow the pace even more)

This IMO is absolutely crucial.

There is a difference between slow play (caused by not being ready to play when it is your turn, leaving bags the wrong side of the green, marking card when you should be teeing off) and slow/long rounds (rounds that take a long time to play... partially caused by "slow play" but also caused by other possibly not obvious factors).

I did an analysis of pace of play at my course a few years ago.... every round I played in a group of three (comps off the whites) and 4 players (casual rounds off the yellows) I actually measured...

1) What time our group arrived at the tee
2) What time we the first of us actually teed off
3) What time we put the flag in the hole
4) by virtue of measuring (1), how long it took us to walk to the next tee

Two things immediately became obvious..

1) The nature of the layout of the course with two difficult par 3's in the first four holes that each took around 9 to 10 minutes to play, immediately caused an issue due to our 8 minute tee intervals (I already suspected this but wanted some data to back up my theory).

2) The rounds that seemed really slow were those that involved a lot of time spent waiting on tees... rounds where there was little waiting on tees were perceived to be quicker... even if the actual round time was long... so effectively being busy say searching for balls, or just hitting lots of shots due to having a mare, didn't add to the feeling of it being a slow round.... I'm sure we've all had those sub four hour rounds that felt like they dragged on and on as well as those 4.5 hour plus rounds that actually felt quite quick. ( and this could be why many groups don't feel like they are playing slowly when challenged!!)

We established that a fair time for a 3 ball in a medal to play the course was 4hrs and 12 minutes. We also understood how long players should expect to take to reach the 5th, 9th and 13th tees so we could at least set some reasonable checkpoints around the course which helped players understand if their "pace" was slow.

When we introduced 10 minute tee intervals we found that we had moved the congestion problem elsewhere on the course and we'd created a concertina effect where parts of the course were empty and others were choked. Further analysis showed me that although we had created a bigger tee intervals players were ignoring them and teeing off down the first when the group ahead was "just out of range"... the group behind would do the same and then thru group behind them also... groups further behind would then walk out to the tee and see the opening hole stretched out in front of them with nobody playing it... immediately creating the impression that they'd lost a hole!! We did eventually move back to 8 minute intervals and put in place some communication encouraging players to wait until their tee time... even if the fairway ahead of them was clear.
This helped matters greatly.

I'm not claiming that we've solved slow play but we certainly don't have the issues every week like we did two or three summers ago when it was a real blight for a period of time. IMO though it is true to say that clubs would have a far better understanding of why it takes so long to play a round of golf if they actually took some time to measure what was happening rather than just tell players to leave their bags in the correct place etc etc.

Try Goodling Dean Knuth and seeing what he has to say about pace of play.

 

[bladeplayer]

on the flip side what is everybody's hurry ?

For most of us This is our pastime , our brief escape from work or even home life to enjoy a couple of hours away ..

If you live an hour from work dont be leaving yourself 59 mins to get there , if you havent got the time for a round of golf including a few delays , maybe you shouldnt be playing ..

Define slow golf /pace of play ? in most cases a group of young chaps are going to walk faster that a group of older folk , so already there is a discrepancy in what slow golf /pace is . in reality its a natural reason , not a problem per say. young guys could be doing alot more flaffing about they just have the ability to walk faster (no offence meant)


As for Cures ..

Lower coarser rough , penalised by distance cut down times searching for balls ..

Club should leave a 10 min gap on the time sheet every 6 or 8 groups ..

Ensure people play at their allotted times Not late (how many penalties have ever been applied fro late tee times at our level) & NOT early , in our place the min the group in front have hit their 2nd shots the next group tees off , when they then get to their ball there is a group on the green group on the fairway and a group on the tee ready to go .. already gridlock ..

No silly pin placements or silly fast greens for ordinary comps ,

Clear signs around greens for direction to next tee (visitors) trolleys this way etc ..

 

[TXL]

I'd like players to have to sign back in with the pro, or a club representative, at the end of a competition round. If the player/group is outside of a time accepted as reasonable for the course they get a 2 stroke penalty and a 'yellow card.' 3 yellow cards in two months sees a 2 comp ban. Harsh but it'll sort the problem.

At one club I was a member of the committee implemented something similar to this. What they implemented was this:

• A competition round time limit was set and published (should take no more that 3hrs 45 mins).
• Each groups start time was noted by the starter, a committee member. It was normally the published tee time.
• As each group finished their finish time was noted by a committee member
• If the group took more than the allotted time, and was more than 15 mins behind the group in front, all players in the group received a 2 shot penalty unless there was a very good reason for the delay (I do not recall anyone "getting away with it").

I can only recall one group ever getting penalised. That stopped the problem and all competition rounds were played at a good pace from then on.

 

[Radbourne2010]

Played at Essendon GCC earlier this year. As at http://www.chesfielddownsgolf.co.uk they have an actual clock on every fourth tee box showing the time you should have reached in relation to the time you teed off. Although I'm generally a quick player I was glancing at the clocks all way round and making damned sure I & my playing partners didn't lag behind the pace of play.

Aside from general Etiquette in allowing faster players through if you've lost touch with those in front the biggest time waster is having to play in turn in Medals or friendly matches. Surely if you're ready just hit your ball. If it means hitting yours first then looking for your partners ball then so be it. Additionally deposit bags on the side of the hole where the next tee is located. Costs 2-3 minutes per hole, at least. Multiply by 18 & that's your half an hour saved.

Evening all

we are compiling a major pace of play piece and are keen to hear about any initiatives the club/course you play at has to improve pace of play

this one is pretty cool... a free pint if you get round in good time!
http://www.gmsgolf.co.uk/wycombe-heights-golf-centre-takes-firm-stance-on-pace-of-play/

also keen to hear about the things you feel can make a real difference when it comes to speeding up play

over to you!

 

[delc]

Evening all

we are compiling a major pace of play piece and are keen to hear about any initiatives the club/course you play at has to improve pace of play

this one is pretty cool... a free pint if you get round in good time!
http://www.gmsgolf.co.uk/wycombe-heights-golf-centre-takes-firm-stance-on-pace-of-play/

also keen to hear about the things you feel can make a real difference when it comes to speeding up play

over to you!

At our club the long rough is only cut down once a year, in late Autumn. Speed of play is much faster during the Winter and early Spring, because you can usually find your ball fairly quickly if you should stray into the rough. In the Summer you will be lucky to find it at all, but most players spend 5 minutes looking for it! Rough should be kept at a length where you can find your ball, but you are restricted to hacking the ball out with a wedge, at least at club level. Less of an issue at Major Championships where there are lots of marshalls and spectators to find errant balls.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you are in one of the first few groups out on a comp day or likely busy day you must accept and that you have a responsibility to get round quickly. And for a 4BBB that might be 3 and half hours. And the club must monitor the speed of the very early groups and make sure they play to that pace. For once a slow pace is set then that is pretty much it for the rest of the morning - if not all day. Normal early starters may not like playing under such a constraint - but tough. You play early - you must play briskly.

 

[Jimaroid]

The difference between a 3h45m round and a 4h round is just 50 seconds per hole. Is it really that big a deal that we have to micro-manage golfers for the sake of those 50 seconds at each hole?

I know a couple of people that try to race around courses and it spoils the enjoyment of the game for me. Golf isn't about speed, it's about score. If you don't have the time to dedicate 4 hours for a round then maybe don't play golf?

 

[BoadieBroadus]

couple of excellent posts about actually assessing courses and actually determining what holds up play and where it occurs.

if there was a band aid fix, i'd have the greenstaff regularly clear out the brush and the bushes, long grass in amongst the trees etc.

i always tended to play early in the am, with reasonably quick and ready players, albeit with a range of abilities. any time we lost was for looking for balls, reloading, looking for provisionals etc.

a long pre shot routine, or leaving the bag in the wrong place, or marking a card on the green makes 10 seconds seem like a minute. when everyone in a group is looking for a ball, it makes a minute feel like 10 seconds (because everyone's occupied).

having a small copse of trees, but with knee length rough in it can take a while to sort through, even when you are sure the ball is in there.