** Pace of play ** Forumers' opinions wanted!

[JezzE]

Dear all,
As most of you may by now have gathered, the Crowborough 'experiment' was a pace of play study, and I wonder if I could ask for the help of the forumers in gaining a little more insight.

I would be grateful if as many of you as possible could tell me from your personal experiences what you feel are the greatest contributing factors to slow play in two separate categories (not just at your home club but also other courses you play).
1) Those directly attributable to the player (eg not ready when it's your turn, leaving trolleys in wrong place etc)
2) Those over which the player has little control (eg long walks from greens to tees etc)

To assist me I would ask that you simply list in order three factors in each category. Please feel free to elaborate a little on each as I may look to use some direct quotes from you in the feature, but please avoid lengthy essay-type answers as I'm on quite a tight schedule and need to be able to work through things pretty quickly!

Finally, please could you also say what you consider an acceptable time for a 2-ball, 3-ball and 4-ball over a standard length course (say around 6,000 to 6,500 yards)

As ever, many thanks for any help you can provide
Jezz

 

[haplesshacker]

Jezz.

I know that lurking in the forum somewhere is a long thread on this subject, from only a month or so ago. I will dig it out later when I get home from work.

Will also contribute later as this needs some thought to narrow it down to the 3 worst reasons. The boss won't appreciate the time on this right now.

 

[Imurg]

Category 1

1. Too many practice swings.
2. Too long to hit the shot - having a "golfing Experience"
3. Not calling through quickly enough. Call through when you have lost the ball not 5 minutes after you start looking

Category 2.

1. Unnescessarily high rough - we're going to find the rough so make it easier to find the ball.
2. Poor design. Why have a hazard beyond a hazard? if you clear the first you get caught by the 2nd and may lose your ball as you can't see it land.
3. Too much water.

2-ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3 1/2
4 ball - 4.

Add 30 minutes for medalplay


Hope this helps

 

[TonyN]

CAT 1

1. Not walking as quick as is comftably possible to there own ball as soon as all shots have been played.(dawldling)SP?
2. Not preparing for there shot untill, it is time for them to play it.
3.Poor admin (bag placement, card marking on green, long routes to next tee etc)

CAT 2

1.Ability, goes with out saying really, a poor golfer will take more shots. more shots=more time
2.Local rules. How many par 3's have you played that dont instruct players to mark and allow following group to tee off.
3.Conditions, Soft greens=more pitchmark work, ball cleaning etc. Rain= brolleys out, coats on etc.

2 ball= 3.5 hours
3 ball= 4 hours
4 ball= 4.5 hours

 

[HTL]

1) Long pre shot routines duffing shot and starting over again, not reading greens when others are putting + being crap

2) Society days, tee times too close together, and stupid rough

2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3hr 30min
4 ball - 4 hour max!!!

 

[JezzE]

Good stuff everyone - keep it coming.
Particularly like htl's 'being crap' as a reason although I may need to rephrase that in the magazine!

 

[SS2]

My club (Cawder) has 2 courses: the "Big" course (6,300 yds) and the "Wee" course (5,900 yds).

Round times

Quick Bounce game, 3 ball
Big Course: 3hrs 15 mins
Wee Course: 2hrs 45 mins

Medal 3 ball
Big Course: 4hrs +
Wee Course: Approx 3 hrs.

Why the difference? It can't just be the 400yds of extra length.

1. The Big course is hilly, the wee course is flat.

2. Rough/looking for balls: the big course has lots or rough, the wee course much less

3. "Being crap", as htl says: each medal, one class out of 1st, 2nd and 3rd classes plays the wee course with the seniors. On medal weeks when the 3rd class players are on the big course, the round is painfully slow, sometimes up to 4 hrs 30 mins.

4. The Big course is particularly prone to clogging up if one group is playing at a snail's pace. I don't think that the slow group letting games through would help, it would just keep the slowbies on the course for longer. What makes them slow? TonyN's CAT 1 reasons sum it up.

Andy.

 

[TonyN]

I did this for you by using the word Ability, I didn't want to upset anyone

 

[CarpeDiem]

I also think that when people hold their follow through when on the tee after their ball has clearly gone onto the fairway, I rekon that this would save a few minuites a round if i'm being picky.

 

[JezzE]

Dear all,
Just to recap, could I refer everyone back to the original post. I really need three slow play factors in each of the two categories, plus the timings as requested,
Many thanks

 

[Toad]

Player's:
Taking too long with pre shot routines
Time spent reading a putt in my opinion this is where the majority of time is lost, should not take 3-5 mins to read a green as I have witnessed on many occasions.
marking cards on the green
Not watching where their bad shot is headed then spending ages trying to find it

Courses:
Too penal rough, everyone knows that amatures are going to find it, if they make it a little easier to find the ball play would be much quicker.
Tee times too close as they try to cram as many visitors in as possible.
Lack of rangers/marshals checking the speed of play

2 ball 2.5-3 Hours
3 Ball 3-3.5 Hours
4 Ball 4-4.5 Hours

 

[Doh]

cat 1

1 Players of all standards not knowing when they should let other groups through.

2 ignorance of the new rules of priorty of play.

3 People not keeping up with the pace of play


Cat 2

1 To many four balls put out close together.

2 Poor course design

3 unnecessary rough

 

[madandra]

C1

1. Idle chit chat when meandering to their ball.
2. TV influence on their pre shot routine on tee, fairway and green (some guys think they are in The Open).
3. The lack of graded rough. This is a big bug bare of mine because on some courses if your ball runs off a hilly fairway it gets caught in rough. I would like to see grading on courses where you have 4ft wide grades of rough instead of just fairway/lost ball.

C2.

2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3hrs 30min
4 ball - 4 hours

BUT THIS WILL ONLY WORK IF SLOWER GROUPS WAVE THE LESSER GROUP THROUGH.

 

[Parmo]

Sorry but creating issues where there are none just decreases ones enjoyment of the game and adding a stop watch to golf more offensive than any slow player.

1) We have etiquette to keep the game moving
2) Its not a race, but a place of relaxation
3) If you are concerned at slow play, phone the Pro or marshal.

 

[JezzE]

madandra,
If you get a moment could you separate yours out into three player-related causes and three that the player really has no control over,
Cheers
Jezz

 

[Toad]

Parmo it's not about a race or getting round as quick as you can but some people play much quicker than others and have better etiquette, if the slower players fail to let quicker groups through for example it backs up the whole course and I know from experience that if you are waiting for 5 mins between every shot your game is ruined.

Jezz is trying to highlight the areas that may be the cause of slow play and is not just having a dig at slow players.

 

[madandra]

Player related:


1. Lack of urgency in getting from shot to ball.

REMEMBER: KEEP UP WITH THE GAME IN FRONT AND NOT IN FRONT OF THE GAME BEHIND !!!

2. Waiting until the person plays before thinking of your own shot and club for said shot.
3. Sky Sports syndrome; when a club golfer paces out or reads a putt from all angles just because the Pro's do.it on telly.


Non player related:

1. The lack of graded rough. This is a big bug bare of mine because on some courses if your ball runs off a hilly fairway it gets caught in rough. I would like to see grading on courses where you have 4ft wide grades of rough instead of just fairway/lost ball.

2. Getting grouped with a guy playing for handicap and his pal who plays of 27.

3. Stirling Moss on a golf buggy who gets through everyone but in doing so has caused an hour delay to all those left in his wake. Anyone using a buggy should be reminded that it for THEIR convenience not OUR inconvenience.

 

[SS2]

Sorry Jezz for veering off topic with earlier post.

Category 1:
1. Taking too long on the green, lining up putts etc
2. Falling behind the game in front (which can happen to everyone) but not trying to catch up
3. Looking for lost balls while ignoring the group behind.

Category 2:
1. Course difficulty (e.g. hills, rough). Harder courses take longer to play
2. "Clog up" holes: many courses have a hole or holes which sometimes have up to three of four groups playing them at any one time.
3. Distance: both length of course and distance between greens and tees.

Round times (bounce game)
2 ball: 3 hrs
3 ball: 3 hrs 20 mins
4 ball: 3 hrs 40 mins

Add on at least 30 minutes for medals. Why is this ????

 

[OldWindy]

Category 1

1. Limited knowledge of rules
2. Pacing out (particularly long) yardages unnecessarily
3. Lack of concentration, i.e. Daydreaming

Category 2

1. Too tough a rough and without graduation
2. The group in front (see category 1)!
3. Squished tee times (i.e. < 8-10mins)

Timings

2 Ball = 3h 10m
3 Ball = 3h 30m
4 Ball = 3h 50m

HTH

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Category 1
Chatting on tee boxes and greens and general meandering from the tees after shots played and to the next tee after holing out

Not understanding competitive golfing ettiquette and not playing provisional shots if there is a chance of a lost ball and waving groups through while searching

TV induced pre-shot routines over every shot which resemble nothing like the attempt to hit the ball. A whole lot of wasted energy to slice the ball 100 yards into the rough

Category 2
Penal rough too close to the fairway. We are not all tour players and making the rough 2 foot high 5 yards from the fairway brings play to snails pace on most holes

Lack of marshalling at most courses to deal with slow play issues

Revenue driven courses trying to pack as many golfers on as possible especially in the Summer.

2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3 1/2 hours
4 ball - 4 hours