madandra
Money List Winner
What about the guy who has just hit his ball off a tee with a driver and put it 150 yards up the fairway and with 250 to go from the rough WAITS FOR THE CHUFFING GREEN TO CLEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
** Pace of play ** Forumers' opinions wanted!
- Thread starter JezzE
- Start date
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
[/QUOTE]Add on at least 30 minutes for medals. Why is this ????
[/QUOTE]
Simple - ball in the hole, no gimmees, no pick ups. Has to take longer.
[/QUOTE]
Simple - ball in the hole, no gimmees, no pick ups. Has to take longer.
Pinseeker
Club Champion
i like to call these slow players faffers! when i play in the weekly roll up i like to drop the "its your honour" rule and when you get to the next tee just go if your ready!
Also and this is a major gripe of mine "pocket Jinglers!" how annoying are these people who seem to have about 100 tees and coins in there pockets and are constantly jingling them and then faff about trying to gett he right tee/coin out when its there turn to play...AAAARRRGGGHHH.
I have three things in my pocket tee, coin and pitch repairer! why on earth do you need various size tee's when you can just push it in a bit further!
Then theres the guys who take 5 mins marking a card and working out what they just scored mumbling to them selves whilst playing partners are trying to tee off!
other annoying things too many practices swings, slow walking, playing on when you can't score any points, not taking 3 off the tee in a medal then walking back, lairy trousers!, belly putters, taking ages over short putts, waiting for the green to clear then duffing, not remembering what ball your playing, hitting someone else's ball, not raking bunkers etc, etc.
i could go on all day but i'm beginning to sound like a miserable sod
Also and this is a major gripe of mine "pocket Jinglers!" how annoying are these people who seem to have about 100 tees and coins in there pockets and are constantly jingling them and then faff about trying to gett he right tee/coin out when its there turn to play...AAAARRRGGGHHH.
I have three things in my pocket tee, coin and pitch repairer! why on earth do you need various size tee's when you can just push it in a bit further!
Then theres the guys who take 5 mins marking a card and working out what they just scored mumbling to them selves whilst playing partners are trying to tee off!
other annoying things too many practices swings, slow walking, playing on when you can't score any points, not taking 3 off the tee in a medal then walking back, lairy trousers!, belly putters, taking ages over short putts, waiting for the green to clear then duffing, not remembering what ball your playing, hitting someone else's ball, not raking bunkers etc, etc.
i could go on all day but i'm beginning to sound like a miserable sod
viscount17
Money List Winner
Category 1
1. lack of understanding of the 5 minute rule - this could be written more clearly - together with an unwillingness to play through (often seen as being a reflection on ability)
2. lack of preparedness for play at all stages - this includes going onto the tee with no ball, no tee and no club (seen them all), everybody walking to each ball irrespective of location, waiting for partner(s) to play before preparing for your shot
3. over-insistence on 'honours' when they are clearly not ready or are unnecessary
Category 2
1. poor course marking and poor/out of date shotsavers - no good having range markers if they've been flattened by a tractor, and not much good if the course has been altered and not re-measured. doesn't help if there are 5 pathways from a green and no indication of the next tee.
2. unrealistic tee-times - need to be flexible to accommodate 2, 3 and 4-ball timings
3. marshalling on busy days/times; better co-ordination with groundstaff at busy/competition times (seniors medal is frequently delayed part way round)
Round times (clearly depends on ability)
2-ball - 3 - 3.5 hours
3-ball - 3.5 - 4 hours
4-ball - 4 - 4.5 hours
1. lack of understanding of the 5 minute rule - this could be written more clearly - together with an unwillingness to play through (often seen as being a reflection on ability)
2. lack of preparedness for play at all stages - this includes going onto the tee with no ball, no tee and no club (seen them all), everybody walking to each ball irrespective of location, waiting for partner(s) to play before preparing for your shot
3. over-insistence on 'honours' when they are clearly not ready or are unnecessary
Category 2
1. poor course marking and poor/out of date shotsavers - no good having range markers if they've been flattened by a tractor, and not much good if the course has been altered and not re-measured. doesn't help if there are 5 pathways from a green and no indication of the next tee.
2. unrealistic tee-times - need to be flexible to accommodate 2, 3 and 4-ball timings
3. marshalling on busy days/times; better co-ordination with groundstaff at busy/competition times (seniors medal is frequently delayed part way round)
Round times (clearly depends on ability)
2-ball - 3 - 3.5 hours
3-ball - 3.5 - 4 hours
4-ball - 4 - 4.5 hours
GB72
Money List Winner
Those problems attributable to the player:
1. Groups following each other over to each others balls rather than getting ready to play their own next shot.
2. Controversial I know but going out in mixed groups. As most ladies tees are in line with the mens, they have to wait whilst the men drive off then go and prepare on their own tee after that.
3. Buggies, the fact that each pair has to drive to every shot and this often means criss-crossing the fairway.
As to those out of the player's control:
1. Bad marshalling jamming up the course. Far too often a stream of 2 balls are sent out on a busy day where a bit of common sense would see those groups paired up.
2. Blind tee shots. It is hard enough to find a ball when you can see it land sometimes let alone when you cannot.
3. Unclear course marking. This is not only in relation to directions to the next tee but also with regards yardage markers that are half hidden in bushes etc.
Average times:
2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3hr 30min
4 ball - 4 hours
1. Groups following each other over to each others balls rather than getting ready to play their own next shot.
2. Controversial I know but going out in mixed groups. As most ladies tees are in line with the mens, they have to wait whilst the men drive off then go and prepare on their own tee after that.
3. Buggies, the fact that each pair has to drive to every shot and this often means criss-crossing the fairway.
As to those out of the player's control:
1. Bad marshalling jamming up the course. Far too often a stream of 2 balls are sent out on a busy day where a bit of common sense would see those groups paired up.
2. Blind tee shots. It is hard enough to find a ball when you can see it land sometimes let alone when you cannot.
3. Unclear course marking. This is not only in relation to directions to the next tee but also with regards yardage markers that are half hidden in bushes etc.
Average times:
2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3hr 30min
4 ball - 4 hours
cm_qs
Head Pro
Cat 1 -
1. My real bugbear- the group in front fails to ring the bell on the hole with the blind tee shot over the hill. Leaves you with three options - wait ages to be safe, walk to the brow of the hill to check then walk back to the tee or just hit anyway and hope that no one is killed!
2. Every player waiting till the preceding player in their group has stroked before walking to their ball.
3. General pi***ing about - marking cards on the green, pre shot routines etc.
Cat 2
1. The starter filling the course with fourballs
2. Punitive rough, heather and other aggressive vegetation.
3. Tee times too close together.
2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3hrs 30min
4 ball - 4 hours
1. My real bugbear- the group in front fails to ring the bell on the hole with the blind tee shot over the hill. Leaves you with three options - wait ages to be safe, walk to the brow of the hill to check then walk back to the tee or just hit anyway and hope that no one is killed!
2. Every player waiting till the preceding player in their group has stroked before walking to their ball.
3. General pi***ing about - marking cards on the green, pre shot routines etc.
Cat 2
1. The starter filling the course with fourballs
2. Punitive rough, heather and other aggressive vegetation.
3. Tee times too close together.
2 ball - 3 hours
3 ball - 3hrs 30min
4 ball - 4 hours
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
I was a "secretary" for a large society up until a couple of years ago. We always used to play Stableford and had handicaps ranging from 2 to 24.
As I gave everybody their scorecards in the morning I used to beg/plead/appeal to their better nature with regard to slow play. Yet still I used to see 10's marked on their scorecards, despite telling them that if they couldn't score a point to pick the bloody ball up and move on. In amongst the 10's and 9's their would be the odd "dash" designating a blob...Jeez if they bothered to hole out for a 10 what were the "blob" scores??? And their response when I asked them what they were doing? "I've paid for the day so I'll play all my shots!!"
And a mate of mine infuriates me on the course, pacing out yardages from the marker posts when even Stevie Wonder could see that he was 10 yards short or inside of the bloody things! The same guy would wait until the other three players in his match had teed off before taking off the head cover of his driver, and then faff around looking at a stroke saver when everything on the hole was there before him to see!! Little things like removing the head cover whilst others are on the tee can save 10 minutes a round! He would think nothing of a 5 hour round, which is far too long for me.
I entered a medal competiton at Princes a few years ago. OK there were some really good golfers out that day, but over 5 hours for a medal played as a 3 ball?
I walked off during the afternoon round, it was about 4.30 and we still had 12 holes to go and I couldn't stand it anymore!
That's the only time I have ever walked off a golf course in my life.
Sorry for my rant....
Maximum times for golf matches?
2 ball 3 hours
3 ball 3.5 hours
4 ball 4.0 hours
It shouldn't really take any longer than that.
As I gave everybody their scorecards in the morning I used to beg/plead/appeal to their better nature with regard to slow play. Yet still I used to see 10's marked on their scorecards, despite telling them that if they couldn't score a point to pick the bloody ball up and move on. In amongst the 10's and 9's their would be the odd "dash" designating a blob...Jeez if they bothered to hole out for a 10 what were the "blob" scores??? And their response when I asked them what they were doing? "I've paid for the day so I'll play all my shots!!"
And a mate of mine infuriates me on the course, pacing out yardages from the marker posts when even Stevie Wonder could see that he was 10 yards short or inside of the bloody things! The same guy would wait until the other three players in his match had teed off before taking off the head cover of his driver, and then faff around looking at a stroke saver when everything on the hole was there before him to see!! Little things like removing the head cover whilst others are on the tee can save 10 minutes a round! He would think nothing of a 5 hour round, which is far too long for me.
I entered a medal competiton at Princes a few years ago. OK there were some really good golfers out that day, but over 5 hours for a medal played as a 3 ball?
I walked off during the afternoon round, it was about 4.30 and we still had 12 holes to go and I couldn't stand it anymore!
That's the only time I have ever walked off a golf course in my life.
Sorry for my rant....
Maximum times for golf matches?
2 ball 3 hours
3 ball 3.5 hours
4 ball 4.0 hours
It shouldn't really take any longer than that.
haplesshacker
Money List Winner
Just before I do the little list.
I'm a 'crap' player, but I hold the course up a lot less than than some 'better' players that I have played with and witnessed. I don't take practice swings generally, I don't spend ages looking at putts, and I hate hanging around. If the fairway is clear then I'll play. I don't dawdle, I don't do much 'small talk' anywhere, and yes I might loose a few more balls than some, but that brings up the penal rough thing as mentioned elsewhere. We're only weekend hackers generally, not pros, just make the rough a little more bearable.
Sorry, I resent the implication that because I'm not as good as you that I am not worthy of being on the course! I know plenty of 'better' players that are a damn sight slower than I am. It comes done to common sense and decency.
Your club will die along with you without new people coming into the sport. I agree that you need some proficiency at hitting a ball before heading out on a big 18, but some 18's are easier than others. I wouldn't normally play a course like Crowborough Beacon as it is beyond my current ability / comfort zone, but I know my limitations and stick to easier courses.
Okay, back on thread.
Player contributed.
1 - Practice swings, putts.
2 - Honor at the greens, wave it, if 3 of you are on the green, 4th player off the green, duffs chip onto green, then walks back to bag to get putter, meanwhile we're still waiting and already having cleaned our balls and lined up our putts. 4th player comes back to green, lines up putts from both sides of the hole, back to ball, 4 practice swings, and then misses hole by a mile. What's wrong with us carrying on whilst he's walking around etc?
3 - Not keeping up with the group in front. ie, chatting on the tee when then should be teeing off.
Course Related
1 - Societies
2 - Direction of next tee from green / no explanation of OB on scorecard when holes run adjacent to each other, (one way or both ways)
3 - Packing in too many tee times (guess they need the cash).
Can I add a fourth?
Golf clubs not providing an information pack when you join. This should explain; etiqutte, course guide inc OBs, basic rules, inc white, red and yellow stakes, lifts, drops etc. Roll ups, comps, time check holes, ie at his point you should have taken 'x' amount of time, dress code, how stableford works, perhaps including a table for all handicaps to allow for easy working out of where you get shots etc. Maybe I should do this for the club.
Max 4.5 hours regardless. Less is nice say between 3 and 4 hours.
Sorry to have gone on, but Jezz has got his answer in here.
I'm a 'crap' player, but I hold the course up a lot less than than some 'better' players that I have played with and witnessed. I don't take practice swings generally, I don't spend ages looking at putts, and I hate hanging around. If the fairway is clear then I'll play. I don't dawdle, I don't do much 'small talk' anywhere, and yes I might loose a few more balls than some, but that brings up the penal rough thing as mentioned elsewhere. We're only weekend hackers generally, not pros, just make the rough a little more bearable.
Sorry, I resent the implication that because I'm not as good as you that I am not worthy of being on the course! I know plenty of 'better' players that are a damn sight slower than I am. It comes done to common sense and decency.
Your club will die along with you without new people coming into the sport. I agree that you need some proficiency at hitting a ball before heading out on a big 18, but some 18's are easier than others. I wouldn't normally play a course like Crowborough Beacon as it is beyond my current ability / comfort zone, but I know my limitations and stick to easier courses.
Okay, back on thread.
Player contributed.
1 - Practice swings, putts.
2 - Honor at the greens, wave it, if 3 of you are on the green, 4th player off the green, duffs chip onto green, then walks back to bag to get putter, meanwhile we're still waiting and already having cleaned our balls and lined up our putts. 4th player comes back to green, lines up putts from both sides of the hole, back to ball, 4 practice swings, and then misses hole by a mile. What's wrong with us carrying on whilst he's walking around etc?
3 - Not keeping up with the group in front. ie, chatting on the tee when then should be teeing off.
Course Related
1 - Societies
2 - Direction of next tee from green / no explanation of OB on scorecard when holes run adjacent to each other, (one way or both ways)
3 - Packing in too many tee times (guess they need the cash).
Can I add a fourth?
Golf clubs not providing an information pack when you join. This should explain; etiqutte, course guide inc OBs, basic rules, inc white, red and yellow stakes, lifts, drops etc. Roll ups, comps, time check holes, ie at his point you should have taken 'x' amount of time, dress code, how stableford works, perhaps including a table for all handicaps to allow for easy working out of where you get shots etc. Maybe I should do this for the club.
Max 4.5 hours regardless. Less is nice say between 3 and 4 hours.
Sorry to have gone on, but Jezz has got his answer in here.
medwayjon
Tour Winner
Catergory 1
1) Over-the-top elongated pre-shot routines over every shot whether it be a drive or a 6in tap-in.
2) Too much small-talk at every tee, walking off every green and when ambling up the fairway chatting about last nights footy scores.
3)Tinkerers, those who have to spend forever cleaning clubs/balls at every ball-cleaner on the course and spend forever de-crapping the grooves on their clubs and generally fart-arsing about at any given opportunity.
Catergory 2
1) unclear directional aid on courses for visitors trying to locate the route to the next tee.
2) The lack of a starter, tee-times are there for a reason and without a starter, many people simply ignore these and go off as soon as the group in front are out of range, thus causing groups to bunch up to each other.
3) Excessivly penal courses, a course I play has a 612yd Par-5, get a group of hackers on this hole and it starts to bunch up very quickly as they take 5 shots to get where a decent golfers drive would land. Other examples are unnecessarily harsh hazzard placement such as bunkers positioned in a location which catches out a decent shot, i.e the landing zone for a 250yd drive on a fairway.
Times,
2-Ball - 3 - 3.25 hours
3-Ball - 3.25 - 3.5 hours
4-Ball - 3.5 - 3.75 hours
These times are based on a fairly flat 6000yd course going at a steady pace as opposed to belting around. Obviously long/hilly tracks will take a little longer.
Medal Play, add 30 mins per round.
1) Over-the-top elongated pre-shot routines over every shot whether it be a drive or a 6in tap-in.
2) Too much small-talk at every tee, walking off every green and when ambling up the fairway chatting about last nights footy scores.
3)Tinkerers, those who have to spend forever cleaning clubs/balls at every ball-cleaner on the course and spend forever de-crapping the grooves on their clubs and generally fart-arsing about at any given opportunity.
Catergory 2
1) unclear directional aid on courses for visitors trying to locate the route to the next tee.
2) The lack of a starter, tee-times are there for a reason and without a starter, many people simply ignore these and go off as soon as the group in front are out of range, thus causing groups to bunch up to each other.
3) Excessivly penal courses, a course I play has a 612yd Par-5, get a group of hackers on this hole and it starts to bunch up very quickly as they take 5 shots to get where a decent golfers drive would land. Other examples are unnecessarily harsh hazzard placement such as bunkers positioned in a location which catches out a decent shot, i.e the landing zone for a 250yd drive on a fairway.
Times,
2-Ball - 3 - 3.25 hours
3-Ball - 3.25 - 3.5 hours
4-Ball - 3.5 - 3.75 hours
These times are based on a fairly flat 6000yd course going at a steady pace as opposed to belting around. Obviously long/hilly tracks will take a little longer.
Medal Play, add 30 mins per round.
Many thanks for all your posts so far. Just a quick reminder for anyone still to post - could you refer back to the original post before replying. What I'm looking to do is pull together some sort of graph/pie chart of the most frequently perceived causes of slow play in the two categories mentioned (3 in each please), plus 'acceptable' times for 2, 3 and 4-balls.
Thanks for all your help and thoughts
Thanks for all your help and thoughts
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
Catergory 1
1) Too many practice swings/preshot routine
2) Not being 'ready to play' when it is your turn
3) Walking too slow
Catergory 2
1) Poor signage for visiting golfers
2) Too smaller gaps between tee times - trying to get too many golfers on - a bit like the M25 on a Friday night....
3) Making the course too hard for the 'average golfer' who had a handicap of 18 (is that the average these days?).
Times,
2-Ball - 3 - 3.30 hours
3-Ball - 3.30 - 4 hours
4-Ball - 3.45 - 4.15 hours
Medal Play, add 30/45 mins per round.
1) Too many practice swings/preshot routine
2) Not being 'ready to play' when it is your turn
3) Walking too slow
Catergory 2
1) Poor signage for visiting golfers
2) Too smaller gaps between tee times - trying to get too many golfers on - a bit like the M25 on a Friday night....
3) Making the course too hard for the 'average golfer' who had a handicap of 18 (is that the average these days?).
Times,
2-Ball - 3 - 3.30 hours
3-Ball - 3.30 - 4 hours
4-Ball - 3.45 - 4.15 hours
Medal Play, add 30/45 mins per round.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
I have a pre shot routine, but whether it is too slow is subjective, and I'm not going to change it now. I do however only take one practice swing.
Category 1
a/ walking slowly.
b/ not being ready to play
c/ excessive reading of putts (followed by leaving it short).
Category 2
a/ Penal rough too close to the fairway
b/ Mounds of dead leaves
c/ bad signing (yardage and directions).
In terms of course design, allowing 'lost' balls to be found, but blocking routes to the green with hazards / trees is more effective than just using deep bundu to defend the course. It keeps play moving.
Unless it is a championship course, which you expect to be tough, and would be a disappointment if it just rolled over.
Timewise:
2 ball 3 to 3 1/4 hours
3 ball 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 hours
4 ball 3 3/4 to 4 hours
Add 1/4 if the course is longer, and another 1/4 if you have to faff with rain kit.
Category 1
a/ walking slowly.
b/ not being ready to play
c/ excessive reading of putts (followed by leaving it short).
Category 2
a/ Penal rough too close to the fairway
b/ Mounds of dead leaves
c/ bad signing (yardage and directions).
In terms of course design, allowing 'lost' balls to be found, but blocking routes to the green with hazards / trees is more effective than just using deep bundu to defend the course. It keeps play moving.
Unless it is a championship course, which you expect to be tough, and would be a disappointment if it just rolled over.
Timewise:
2 ball 3 to 3 1/4 hours
3 ball 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 hours
4 ball 3 3/4 to 4 hours
Add 1/4 if the course is longer, and another 1/4 if you have to faff with rain kit.
User 105
Journeyman Pro
Cat 1
1. Not being ready to take your shot (Choosing club, taking practice swings etc after previous player has already made his shot).
2. Not taking a provisional off the tee when the tee shot is in the deep stuff. Get this a lot where I play.
3. Taking too long over putts, reading greens, practice swings, read the green again from every possible angle. Then 3 putt from 10 feet !
Cat 2
1. Cramming too many groups into a day.
2. No marshaling of slow play.
3. No graded rough. It's either up to your knees or might as well be fairway.
2 Ball - 3 hours
3 Ball - 3.5 hours
4 Ball - 4 hours
Westy
1. Not being ready to take your shot (Choosing club, taking practice swings etc after previous player has already made his shot).
2. Not taking a provisional off the tee when the tee shot is in the deep stuff. Get this a lot where I play.
3. Taking too long over putts, reading greens, practice swings, read the green again from every possible angle. Then 3 putt from 10 feet !
Cat 2
1. Cramming too many groups into a day.
2. No marshaling of slow play.
3. No graded rough. It's either up to your knees or might as well be fairway.
2 Ball - 3 hours
3 Ball - 3.5 hours
4 Ball - 4 hours
Westy
teetime72
Head Pro
All or any of the above.
Plus having mixed groups ie 2ball/3ball/4ball
playing at the same time.
Plus having mixed groups ie 2ball/3ball/4ball
playing at the same time.
billyg
Q-School Graduate
Directly attributable to players*:
1) Inexperience: if you can't reliably get the ball off the turf, hit it where you aim it, crown it a lot or won't take a medicine shot from the rough then your going to take more shots and therefore more time. Only a golfers 'fault' in the strictest 'letter' and not the 'spirit' of the postulate.
2) The Tiger delusion: Most of even the biggest hitters here can't spank a driver much more than 300 yards right? Then why wait until the next group is on the green(or indeed clear of it) to play your tee shot unless it's 301 to the front?
If you know the hole is 400 yards long and they're a pitch away from the short stuff it's time to shoot.
3)'The Faff': which includes twiddling about with the bag, nattering, dawdling, rolling a fag and generally not being prepared to play your next shot at the first permissable opportunity.
Directly attributable to course:
1) clearly and above all else... too many tee times.
Judging from the above replies(which I hasten to say I don't neccisarily agree with- see *) it would seem that a 2 ball should get a hole in ten minutes tee to tee (3 hours{180 minutes} / 18 holes = 10 minutes per hole)
If clubs schedule anything less than 10 minutes there is no margin for error. 18 sets of players out on a course and if the first so much as looses one or two minutes everyone else gets delayed.
2) A par 3 in the first 3 holes
Don't know why this is but there always seems to be a pinch point around an early par 3 in the round. Cannot explain it but there you go.
3) Heavily sculped fairways. Those lovely curving chicane-like indents look pleasing to the eye but act like sticky fly paper to a drive about to run out of puff.Leave all that stuff around the target zone or just give it a miss please course designers.
timings:
2 ball - 3-3.5 hours
3 ball - 4 hours
4 ball 4.5 hours
* Im guilty of all of these time sapping activities at one time or another. As much as I appreciate that people don't like to wait around(and I certainly don't like to feel a group burning holes in my back while i'm putting)it's a placid game that I like to play at a placid pace. I don't want to rush around when I play golf so I let a lot of people through. If that means it takes longer to get around then that's just fine. If i'm on a tight clock that day I wouldn't have played as I would be thinking about my next 'task' and wouldn't enjoy it .
Why should I similarly pay the price for someone elses poor time management?
IMHO theres far to much charging around for the sake of charging around(which is why I would ban trolleys outright with only very minor excemptions for medically certified people wishing to use their own 1 person electric golf chairs). I think if I went through a protracted period of time where I thought I was being pressured unfairly to play faster I would just stop playing golf. I want to enjoy the trees, the silence and the wildlife as well as my golf. if I wasn't getting a sense of that freedom from golf then I might as well ditch the clubs and go rambling instead.
1) Inexperience: if you can't reliably get the ball off the turf, hit it where you aim it, crown it a lot or won't take a medicine shot from the rough then your going to take more shots and therefore more time. Only a golfers 'fault' in the strictest 'letter' and not the 'spirit' of the postulate.
2) The Tiger delusion: Most of even the biggest hitters here can't spank a driver much more than 300 yards right? Then why wait until the next group is on the green(or indeed clear of it) to play your tee shot unless it's 301 to the front?
If you know the hole is 400 yards long and they're a pitch away from the short stuff it's time to shoot.
3)'The Faff': which includes twiddling about with the bag, nattering, dawdling, rolling a fag and generally not being prepared to play your next shot at the first permissable opportunity.
Directly attributable to course:
1) clearly and above all else... too many tee times.
Judging from the above replies(which I hasten to say I don't neccisarily agree with- see *) it would seem that a 2 ball should get a hole in ten minutes tee to tee (3 hours{180 minutes} / 18 holes = 10 minutes per hole)
If clubs schedule anything less than 10 minutes there is no margin for error. 18 sets of players out on a course and if the first so much as looses one or two minutes everyone else gets delayed.
2) A par 3 in the first 3 holes
Don't know why this is but there always seems to be a pinch point around an early par 3 in the round. Cannot explain it but there you go.
3) Heavily sculped fairways. Those lovely curving chicane-like indents look pleasing to the eye but act like sticky fly paper to a drive about to run out of puff.Leave all that stuff around the target zone or just give it a miss please course designers.
timings:
2 ball - 3-3.5 hours
3 ball - 4 hours
4 ball 4.5 hours
* Im guilty of all of these time sapping activities at one time or another. As much as I appreciate that people don't like to wait around(and I certainly don't like to feel a group burning holes in my back while i'm putting)it's a placid game that I like to play at a placid pace. I don't want to rush around when I play golf so I let a lot of people through. If that means it takes longer to get around then that's just fine. If i'm on a tight clock that day I wouldn't have played as I would be thinking about my next 'task' and wouldn't enjoy it .
Why should I similarly pay the price for someone elses poor time management?
IMHO theres far to much charging around for the sake of charging around(which is why I would ban trolleys outright with only very minor excemptions for medically certified people wishing to use their own 1 person electric golf chairs). I think if I went through a protracted period of time where I thought I was being pressured unfairly to play faster I would just stop playing golf. I want to enjoy the trees, the silence and the wildlife as well as my golf. if I wasn't getting a sense of that freedom from golf then I might as well ditch the clubs and go rambling instead.
vig
Tour Winner
Cat 1
1. golfers OCD, too many practice swings followed by careful aiming followed by more practice swings. Excessive lining/reading of putts etc..
2. Over confidence in ability on hitting a ball 400yds, eg waiting for group in front to go beyond visibility
3. Poor etiquette
Cat 2
1. Poor admin, putting four balls out and then backing up with two balls. This IS going to cause a "back up" pretty
quickly. If it has to happen then leave a greater gap between tee off times
2. Blind tee shots and lack of bell ringing
3. Lack of graduated rough
Times :-
2 ball 3 - 31/2 hrs
3 ball 31/2 - 4 hrs
4 ball 4 - 41/2hrs
Depending on the course difficulty
1. golfers OCD, too many practice swings followed by careful aiming followed by more practice swings. Excessive lining/reading of putts etc..
2. Over confidence in ability on hitting a ball 400yds, eg waiting for group in front to go beyond visibility
3. Poor etiquette
Cat 2
1. Poor admin, putting four balls out and then backing up with two balls. This IS going to cause a "back up" pretty
quickly. If it has to happen then leave a greater gap between tee off times
2. Blind tee shots and lack of bell ringing
3. Lack of graduated rough
Times :-
2 ball 3 - 31/2 hrs
3 ball 31/2 - 4 hrs
4 ball 4 - 41/2hrs
Depending on the course difficulty
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
Category 1
1. Not being ready to play - mainly chatting on tees/greens.
2. People walking at the pace of there powercaddy - ie slowly
3. Lost balls - not calling through
Category 2.
1. Courses which appear to be set up for pro's rather than high handicappers and amateurs - ie long rough (and no spotters)
2. Some courses have to many blind shots - meaning balls can more easily be lost
3. Having to play in 4 balls at some courses.
2-ball - 3 1/2 hours
3 ball - 3 3/4 hours
4 ball - 4. hours
1. Not being ready to play - mainly chatting on tees/greens.
2. People walking at the pace of there powercaddy - ie slowly
3. Lost balls - not calling through
Category 2.
1. Courses which appear to be set up for pro's rather than high handicappers and amateurs - ie long rough (and no spotters)
2. Some courses have to many blind shots - meaning balls can more easily be lost
3. Having to play in 4 balls at some courses.
2-ball - 3 1/2 hours
3 ball - 3 3/4 hours
4 ball - 4. hours
Herbie
Tour Winner
Well her is my list of slow play causation, if its any use?
1. Very long winded pre shot routines followed by a cocked up shot!
2. Discussing golf or whatever between players at times they should be playing a shot.
3. Not playing provisional ball when 1st ball out of sight,followed by search that produces nothing. doh!
4. People who wait for group ahead to reach greens on long par 4s before teeing off and only able to hit half way there.
5. Group searches for balls(various fiasco's)
6. Positioning of golf bags on certain holes leading to unnecessary wandering back and forth in front of greens.
7. Putting proceedure with some golfers is very long winded, often longer than pros take with a long putt to win a masters final.lol.EVERY PUTT,even the gimmes.
8. Poor prep before shots,ie not knowing what to do,what club to pick.
9. The walking pace of some people.
10. The deliberate and the bloody minded who hold up as if it was a reqirement in the irritating git club.
11. Social dancing, or golfers who constantly wish to look at and discuss anothers golf kit at the tee/greens and with many a shot down the fairway and are unaware of the time consumed.
12.Golfers in bunkers who havent learned how to take bunker shots or have never listened when being taught, or have very little experience in bunkers yet take the most difficult choice of shot with inevitable result.
13.Failing to wave through.
14. golf buggies, they are always confused slow buggers in my view lol.
15.People who watch and interact with others before thinking about their own game ie what club and shot is next for them.
On the whole it is usually little things that by the end of a round add up to a lot of time. I often hear from people who do these things who come out with all sorts of excuses, like the games not timed and its no pleasure if you are rushed,or ,high h/c players promoting long round acceptance and even demanding they be heard and not picked on for being slow, yet fail miserably to see how such an attitude often affects others who play a round at various paces below their time. Who considers them? there is a lot of selfishness and bias on this subject, I would like to see more effort at clubs to stamp out slow play, most reasonably minded people know what slow play is, its only the slow players who dont want to see it.Speeding up a bit is not likely to have a negative effect on anyone, more like positive, but it would prevent a lot of negative play by competent golfers who get frustrated watching their blood setting in their motionless bodies on the course and causing them to play poorly.lol .The quickest way to a coffin is to slow down to a crawl, if you wanna live longer get those bones moving and that heart pumping, you cant do that in a 4 to 5 hour round of golf.Buck your ideas up , get yer finger out.lol.
1. Very long winded pre shot routines followed by a cocked up shot!
2. Discussing golf or whatever between players at times they should be playing a shot.
3. Not playing provisional ball when 1st ball out of sight,followed by search that produces nothing. doh!
4. People who wait for group ahead to reach greens on long par 4s before teeing off and only able to hit half way there.
5. Group searches for balls(various fiasco's)
6. Positioning of golf bags on certain holes leading to unnecessary wandering back and forth in front of greens.
7. Putting proceedure with some golfers is very long winded, often longer than pros take with a long putt to win a masters final.lol.EVERY PUTT,even the gimmes.
8. Poor prep before shots,ie not knowing what to do,what club to pick.
9. The walking pace of some people.
10. The deliberate and the bloody minded who hold up as if it was a reqirement in the irritating git club.
11. Social dancing, or golfers who constantly wish to look at and discuss anothers golf kit at the tee/greens and with many a shot down the fairway and are unaware of the time consumed.
12.Golfers in bunkers who havent learned how to take bunker shots or have never listened when being taught, or have very little experience in bunkers yet take the most difficult choice of shot with inevitable result.
13.Failing to wave through.
14. golf buggies, they are always confused slow buggers in my view lol.
15.People who watch and interact with others before thinking about their own game ie what club and shot is next for them.
On the whole it is usually little things that by the end of a round add up to a lot of time. I often hear from people who do these things who come out with all sorts of excuses, like the games not timed and its no pleasure if you are rushed,or ,high h/c players promoting long round acceptance and even demanding they be heard and not picked on for being slow, yet fail miserably to see how such an attitude often affects others who play a round at various paces below their time. Who considers them? there is a lot of selfishness and bias on this subject, I would like to see more effort at clubs to stamp out slow play, most reasonably minded people know what slow play is, its only the slow players who dont want to see it.Speeding up a bit is not likely to have a negative effect on anyone, more like positive, but it would prevent a lot of negative play by competent golfers who get frustrated watching their blood setting in their motionless bodies on the course and causing them to play poorly.lol .The quickest way to a coffin is to slow down to a crawl, if you wanna live longer get those bones moving and that heart pumping, you cant do that in a 4 to 5 hour round of golf.Buck your ideas up , get yer finger out.lol.
Herb and one or two others,
Lots of good stuff here but could you just pick out your top 3 reasons in each of the two categories so I can use your views when putting together the stats
Many thanks
Jezz
Lots of good stuff here but could you just pick out your top 3 reasons in each of the two categories so I can use your views when putting together the stats
Many thanks
Jezz
madandra
Money List Winner
JezzE you not got a home to go to ?
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