OpenPlay & iGolf not acceptable in opens

[Bucktaylor64]

Sham handicaps? Given the number of reports of people cheating on here, seems anyone can have a 'sham' handicap if they're so inclined.

There's plenty of sham handicaps held by regular club members.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

There's plenty of sham handicaps held by regular club members.

Perhaps so, but the club has oversight of these guys and at least knows then, how does Quentin in his Scottish golf office in Edinburgh know anything about Charlie in Wick and how genuine his reported scores are?

 

[IanM]

Perhaps so, but the club has oversight of these guys and at least knows then, how does Quentin in his Scottish golf office in Edinburgh know anything about Charlie in Wick and how genuine his reported scores are?

That will always be the problem with centralised management of this sort.

The old way being imperfect is no justification for bringing in a process even harder to police

 

[2blue]

That will always be the problem with centralised management of this sort.

The old way being imperfect is no justification for bringing in a process even harder to police

So what's the 'perfect' system please?

 

[IanM]

So what's the 'perfect' system please?

Half a mo, this week is World Peace and ending poverty!

I was reiterating that adding loopholes to any existing process is never a good thing.

 

[stymied]

There is no valid reason for clubs to reject entries from official independent golfer schemes, just as there is no reason for them to reject players from other jurisdictions. There are far better ways of managing misconceptions about (potential) handicap cheats being rife - which is all this is really about - such as having different prize tables for home club members, visiting club members, independent golfers, etc. There are probably far more handicap cheats who are members of traditional golf clubs than are members of the independent golfer schemes.

Also, opens are a good way of advertising the club - being overtly unwelcoming isn't the best way to come across to any prospective future members or society organisers.

Hmm...I see it as a price discrimination tool and not necessarily a concern about the validity of the handicap. An individual who has their handicap at a club will generally play at that club. The way to entice them to play elsewhere is a lower price in a comp. The person who keeps their membership at an online club is always looking for a place to play and therefore is more likely to pay full rate.

The comments about a club membership costing less than the online membership is a tough one under my theory.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Isnt it just another case of they run something and lay the criteria down needed to take part?
It's theirs to run it how they want.

 

[IanM]

Isnt it just another case of they run something and lay the criteria down needed to take part?
It's theirs to run it how they want.

That was my thought.



I wonder if I can get a Premier League season ticket and pay much less because I can't go every week?

 

[Radbourne2010]

Been thinking about this subject this month. Took the decision to suspend my playing membership at Gog Magog for a year, due to health (dodgy elbow/shoulder) & logistics. Am a non-playing Member now but the club will not host my handicap during the year in question (Oct to Sept). Played around 35 Medal rounds last year, so have plenty in the tank but need to find a way to have my handicap kept somewhere. Will pay the England Golf fee this year to affiliate my CDH with them for handicapping purposes. Whether this would preclude me plying in Open events in UK & abroad is an issue I hadn’t thought about

 

[IanM]

Orchardleigh in Somerset. £1, much cheaper than England golf.
Get Googling.

 

[Morfeen75]

I'm vehemently against non members of clubs playing in open competitions if they havent been an active member of a club for more than 12months.

 

[Dunesman]

On the cost, they certainly need need to be charged more than non igolf members. So greenfee (or whatever the lower end best greenfee deal for the season or day), plus competition entry fee that a memmber of the club pays, plus an igolf premium. Or rather, a penalty for not being a member of a club and thus not contributing their share to course infrastructure that non igolf members would be. More the principle than the value. So maybe £20 extra. So that there is a crossing point where actual membership outweighs paying the £20 premium.

On the trustability of handicaps, I think until the club situation regarding the inherent flaws and excessive variability of WHS, and the general play cards (and their abuse, not that I am seeing that personally) versus competition cards, needs to be resolved first.

Then assess any residual igolf issues. Quite apart from the concerns about oversight of them, they too are affected by the above two issues, so need resolving first.
Yes, x cards in the previous 12 months possibly a reasonable condition as well.

 

[abjectplop]

Was just looking at Cruden Bay Open for next year. They've got the same statement saying OpenPlay handicaps are not eligible.

 

[Golf is fun]

Whilst I can see both sides of this, surely with a bit of thought you can come up with a much more sensible and equitable solution. Just make it so no matter if you are a club member of an igolf member to win a prize X number of your counting scores have to be from competition. You can even make it so this is a requirement to win a prize but anyone can enter for the experience.

If the belief is that handicap manipulation comes from general play rounds, target this rather than whether someone is a club member or not. Ironically if someone is a true nomad who plays lot of opens opens their competition cards will probably be all attested by strangers whereas a club player taking part in mostly non drawn competitions probably still play with friends and so actually have more potential to manipulate if they so choose.

 

[LincolnShep]

I thought the purpose of hosting an open and offering attractive entry fees was to entice potential new members. Is there another reason to host one?

If they're trying to attract new members then they should be targeting iGolfers, not excluding them. In the Aug24 issue, GM reported that, since England Golf launched iGolf, from around 46,000 iGolf subscribers 10,700 had subsequently transitioned to memberships of affiliated golf clubs. Nearly a quarter!

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I thought the purpose of hosting an open and offering attractive entry fees was to entice potential new members. Is there another reason to host one?

If they're trying to attract new members then they should be targeting iGolfers, not excluding them. In the Aug24 issue, GM reported that, since England Golf launched iGolf, from around 46,000 iGolf subscribers 10,700 had subsequently transitioned to memberships of affiliated golf clubs. Nearly a quarter!

That’s the clubs idea and what they want to see

The problem is there are people out there that are pot hunting and trying to get the big prizes

It’s not a new thing

We have all had many conversations about the likes of the Irish Short game wizard who was winning everything known to golf yet handicap was going up, people are manipulating the system to give chances to win big vouchers and prizes

We saw it this spring and summer when a bunch managed to sweep the board

But it’s not just I golf members ita club members

I golf members don’t really have that extra cheque and balance that a club provides with a HC committee

It’s as ever - minority ruining it

 

[D-S]

I thought the purpose of hosting an open and offering attractive entry fees was to entice potential new members. Is there another reason to host one?

If they're trying to attract new members then they should be targeting iGolfers, not excluding them. In the Aug24 issue, GM reported that, since England Golf launched iGolf, from around 46,000 iGolf subscribers 10,700 had subsequently transitioned to memberships of affiliated golf clubs. Nearly a quarter!

A lot of clubs that host Opens have long waiting lists, so I assume they aren’t actively trying to recruit new members.
I assume they host them either as an easy way to make money in one hit or simply because that’s what they have always done.
With the boom in golf membership over the last few years and with many clubs having waiting lists for the first time for many years or are full which they never used to be, we have, around here, seen no diminution in the number of Opens.

Also there are always a lot of golfers who take some time off between memberships for a number of reasons, just because the 10,700 iGolfers joined or rejoined clubs doesn’t mean they wouldn’t simply have done this before.

 

[Slab]

I thought the purpose of hosting an open and offering attractive entry fees was to entice potential new members. Is there another reason to host one?

If they're trying to attract new members then they should be targeting iGolfers, not excluding them. In the Aug24 issue, GM reported that, since England Golf launched iGolf, from around 46,000 iGolf subscribers 10,700 had subsequently transitioned to memberships of affiliated golf clubs. Nearly a quarter!

It kinda should be but looking from the outside, there's perhaps these days some clubs running them as a revenue generators
If adding to members was really (still) the primary aim, surely 1st prize would be something like; 6 month membership & maybe not a TM driver

 

[Dunesman]

I thought the purpose of hosting an open and offering attractive entry fees was to entice potential new members.

Not at all the reason. It certainly wasnt in the past and I would doubt still not much of a consideration even today.

Opens traditionally came about as simply a way of members of one club to play in another, in competition. Otherwise, unless people were it the elite level and playing for county or national trophies, most golfers had their competitive golf confined to their own clubs. And they were much rarer events than they are today. So it was more of a novelty, and a quid pro quo for members of clubs for whom joining the open club wasnt a consideration at all.
For some clubs there was a fundraising element in it. An open week, a welcome boost to the finances. And similarly a commercial interest for more remote or tourism area clubs to attract visitors to the area for a few days or the week, or that Father would chose to take the family on a holiday to somewhere he could play golf rather than somewhere he couldnt.
Opens as a routine thing week in week out, and during the week are a much more recent development, driven to a great extent by commercial clubs, but not part of the traditional member club model, even if some have followed that example somewhat.

 

[IanM]

I thought the purpose of hosting an open and offering attractive entry fees was to entice potential new members. Is there another reason to host one?

Yes. Revenue generation on an otherwise quiet day midweek. Sales in pro shop and bar too.

Certainly this is the primary reason at one club I'm a member of. No other reason at all.