Octopus energy

[PJ87]

We are with Octopus... and doing some extensions. So keen to look at Heat Pumps. Got a quote for about 4.5k.

However, i would be more inclined to have a hybrid heat pump - gas combi heating situation. That way heat pump can heat till 40-50 degrees while gas takes it to 70 degrees. Not many doing it at the moment. Have written to Octopus to find out if they can.

Talking of NIMBYs... my local area voted down proposal to install mobile cell tower on an crossroads - since it hampers the view. But never shy of letting off a bit of steam about poor mobile reception in the area.

Watch heat geek, they show that heat pumps can suit majority of systems if set up correctly . They even did a video with the skilled builder who normally is dead against heat pumps.

As long as you could have a water tank for the hot water the heat pump would be a good solution. Unfortunately I haven't got space for a tank so for now it's on the back burner

Just make sure you find someone who knows their stuff not like the poor guy on this video who got a cowboy

 

[cliveb]

Not entirely relevant to this thread but this article is interesting about newer generations of heat pumps, certainly this was new to me.

Will hotter heat pumps win over homeowners?

Could a new generation of heat pumps overcome British fears that they can't heat a home.

www.bbc.co.uk

I saw that item and while it's obviously good news for the future, my immediate thought was about the early adopters who went to the expense of replacing their pipework and radiators. They must be feeling well hacked off.

 

[PJ87]

I saw that item and while it's obviously good news for the future, my immediate thought was about the early adopters who went to the expense of replacing their pipework and radiators. They must be feeling well hacked off.

Heat geek pointed out in the video posted you need to have the right heat pump for you, unfortunately too many cowboys (like the solar industry)

Because some you won't need to upgrade pipes. And the underfloor heating myth has been proven wrong .. same with solid walls they will work which was music to my ears

Brilliant video tbh

 

[larmen]

Watch heat geek, they show that heat pumps can suit majority of systems if set up correctly . They even did a video with the skilled builder who normally is dead against heat pumps.

As long as you could have a water tank for the hot water the heat pump would be a good solution. Unfortunately I haven't got space for a tank so for now it's on the back burner

Just make sure you find someone who knows their stuff not like the poor guy on this video who got a cowboy

Saw that video and when it was switched on it was horrendous. Turns out any cowboy can ruin a system, even a good one.
Not sure if it was this video, but they mentioned that cowboys are following grants. Double glazing windows, solar, heat pump, insulation. Wherever is grant money you have to be careful who you get in.

 

[PJ87]

Saw that video and when it was switched on it was horrendous. Turns out any cowboy can ruin a system, even a good one.
Not sure if it was this video, but they mentioned that cowboys are following grants. Double glazing windows, solar, heat pump, insulation. Wherever is grant money you have to be careful who you get in.

Yeah it was this video I believe, brilliant video , very balanced and very interesting

Yeah turning it on was awful but the foundation for it .. my god

 

[nickjdavis]

Just submitted my meter readings (no smart meter here) to Octopus and noticed in their "balance forecast" tool that they recommended my payment to be £270 a month to keep my balance where they think it should be (currently £300). I notice that their recommendation keeps my balance positive well into spring 2025 (i.e. my money in their bank working for them, rather than me) even after the darkest depths of winter and the higher fuel bills associated with that time.

Dropped my monthly payment to £250 (and that means my forecast balance goes negative briefly for a couple of months next spring...so for the majority of time they still have my money working for them)....but looking back...it was only September last year and I was paying £440 a month!!

 

[Alan Clifford]

It depends. If you have a heat pump set up correctly modern heat pumps are at least 350% efficient IE 1kw goes in 3.5kw of energy goes out

Heard statistics like that before which I don't understand. If you have over 100% efficiency, you could put in serial heat pumps, one heat pump's output being the input for the next one and so on, and have infinite energy.
Or you could have just two heat pumps. Pump number one would power pump number two and vice versa. And you would still get the 2.5kw excess out of each pump!

 

[cliveb]

Heard statistics like that before which I don't understand. If you have over 100% efficiency, you could put in serial heat pumps, one heat pump's output being the input for the next one and so on, and have infinite energy.
Or you could have just two heat pumps. Pump number one would power pump number two and vice versa. And you would still get the 2.5kw excess out of each pump!

My understanding is that the latest type of heat pumps do in fact have two in cascade. The first one operates efficiently at low temperatures, and feeds its output to a second that's optimised for higher temperatures. That's how they manage to get output temps up as high as a gas boiler.

But you couldn't cascade more and more to get "infinite" energy: as the temperatures get higher, the efficiency of individual pumps will get less and less, until there's a point where the power required to operate the Nth pump yields less in additional heat than you put in.

 

[Alan Clifford]

My understanding is that the latest type of heat pumps do in fact have two in cascade. The first one operates efficiently at low temperatures, and feeds its output to a second that's optimised for higher temperatures. That's how they manage to get output temps up as high as a gas boiler.

But you couldn't cascade more and more to get "infinite" energy: as the temperatures get higher, the efficiency of individual pumps will get less and less, until there's a point where the power required to operate the Nth pump yields less in additional heat than you put in.

But if they are 350% efficient, or anything over 100%, it could actually power itself.

 

[cliveb]

But if they are 350% efficient, or anything over 100%, it could actually power itself.

They extract heat from the surrounding environment.
Saying they are 350% efficient is a lazy way of saying 3.5 times as much heat comes out as the power you put in.
No machine can be more than 100% efficient.

 

[Mudball]

They extract heat from the surrounding environment.
Saying they are 350% efficient is a lazy way of saying 3.5 times as much heat comes out as the power you put in.
No machine can be more than 100% efficient.

you are right... it converts 1k electric unit into 3.5k heat unit. If it was infinite machine, then it would be converting 1 unit of leccy into 3.5 unit of leccy..
So the output is higher than input but in a different energy form. Most Daily Mail readers will understand that.

But for sake of argument if you can find a machine that can convert 3.5k of heat unit into >1k unit of leccy, then you could daisy chain them into a circuit 1 unit leccy -> 3.5 heat - 3.5heat -> 2 unit leccy... Bingo you now have perpetual energy. Why did i not think of this before..

 

[PJ87]

Heard statistics like that before which I don't understand. If you have over 100% efficiency, you could put in serial heat pumps, one heat pump's output being the input for the next one and so on, and have infinite energy.
Or you could have just two heat pumps. Pump number one would power pump number two and vice versa. And you would still get the 2.5kw excess out of each pump!

Clive has already explained, it's just basically a dumbed down phrase to make it easy to follow

 

[Alan Clifford]

They extract heat from the surrounding environment.
Saying they are 350% efficient is a lazy way of saying 3.5 times as much heat comes out as the power you put in.
No machine can be more than 100% efficient.

But at more than 100 % efficiency as you are saying more heat comes out than energy goes in, they are self powering

 

[Alan Clifford]

But for sake of argument if you can find a machine that can convert 3.5k of heat unit into >1k unit of leccy, then you could daisy chain them into a circuit 1 unit leccy -> 3.5 heat - 3.5heat -> 2 unit leccy... Bingo you now have perpetual energy. Why did i not think of this before..

That's what 350 % efficiiency means

 

[Alan Clifford]

Clive has already explained, it's just basically a dumbed down phrase to make it easy to follow

Not easier for me. 350% is more than 100% so energy is free for the rest of eternity.

 

[larmen]

Watch heat geek, they show that heat pumps can suit majority of systems if set up correctly . They even did a video with the skilled builder who normally is dead against heat pumps.

As long as you could have a water tank for the hot water the heat pump would be a good solution. Unfortunately I haven't got space for a tank so for now it's on the back burner

Just make sure you find someone who knows their stuff not like the poor guy on this video who got a cowboy

There are some follow up videos on this now.
Basically, the supplier and a dozen heat geek qualified installers replaced his system for free. Lucky guy.


I used the heat geek calculator and for our house we would save £200 a year on heating but changing to a heat pump. It’s a no-brainer not to replace the boiler before it is needed, or forced by legislation.

 

[PJ87]

There are some follow up videos on this now.
Basically, the supplier and a dozen heat geek qualified installers replaced his system for free. Lucky guy.


I used the heat geek calculator and for our house we would save £200 a year on heating but changing to a heat pump. It’s a no-brainer not to replace the boiler before it is needed, or forced by legislation.

I really love the idea of it. And I'd love to get one. I just however have zero space for a hot water tank. (Lofts converted to a room) Someone suggested get in the garage and then get the pipe work to the house in a protective housing.. something to consider for sure . It's on my list , just a bit down it unfortunately

 

[PJ87]

There are some follow up videos on this now.
Basically, the supplier and a dozen heat geek qualified installers replaced his system for free. Lucky guy.


I used the heat geek calculator and for our house we would save £200 a year on heating but changing to a heat pump. It’s a no-brainer not to replace the boiler before it is needed, or forced by legislation.

have you seen heat geeks latest?

(indepth video here)

the size of that would fit where my combi boiler is now and put a heat pump outside. Very tempting with that one. on my consider list when we finally come to doing the kitchen (where the boiler is atm)

 

[larmen]

Seen it, but we have a massive water cylinder in our house anyway. We bought it from a plumber.

Heatgeaks calculator says we save £200 a year if we switch to heat pump. It’s a no brainer to stick with our boiler while it is still working.

 

[PJ87]

Seen it, but we have a massive water cylinder in our house anyway. We bought it from a plumber.

Heatgeaks calculator says we save £200 a year if we switch to heat pump. It’s a no brainer to stick with our boiler while it is still working.

Yeah 100% I'll be sticking with my boiler until I do the kitchen, boiler was installed in 2019 so will be fine for a long time. So it's a case of when the kitchen gets done we can do the swap and remove the hob for induction then can get the gas meter removed