No Returns

[RulesGuy]

Apologies if this has already been brought up but what is the position with no returns (full round) in the WHS? The only thing I could find was a CONGU advice in Jan 2019 which placed the onus on the committee regarding sanctions. I am sure this has been addressed as it compromises the integrity of the system as a whole. Is there a system in place that flags these up with the threat of possible removal of a player's handicap index?

 

[Old Skier]

Apologies if this has already been brought up but what is the position with no returns (full round) in the WHS? The only thing I could find was a CONGU advice in Jan 2019 which placed the onus on the committee regarding sanctions. I am sure this has been addressed as it compromises the integrity of the system as a whole. Is there a system in place that flags these up with the threat of possible removal of a player's handicap index?

NR are flagged up in a report made available to the HC to enable them to take the necessary action.

 

[jim8flog]

It now depends on how many scores are recorded on the card as NR.

A player has to play at least 10 holes for a card to be used for handicap purposes. Any hole not started has to be recorded as NS on the Card and not NR and a committee can add penalty cores for holes not started.

The club can still impose sanctions for player who is seen to not return cards, complete cards properly etc

Each club really should develop it's own method for dealing with such players and ours has been in force for several years.

 

[RulesGuy]

Thanks for that. Our policy will need to be updated in line with handicapping rule 7

 

[IanM]

What sanctions for NRs do you impose? Bans from comps?

 

[rulefan]

Thanks for that. Our policy will need to be updated in line with handicapping rule 7

I guess you have found the comprehensive Rule 7.1b and its useful diagram.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

One option - if there is no good reason given - is to impose a penalty score. Sadly, despite asking the county and EG there is no guidance to what the score might be!

 

[jim8flog]

What sanctions for NRs do you impose? Bans from comps?

Ours goes as far as loss of handicap for a set period which means a player cannot play anywhere including any comps they might have entered at another club.

We have been there once, the player involved totally ignored 3 written warnings.

When word gets round it does tend to stop others from ignoring the rules.

Particularly when the players find there is a £200 fee if they wish to appeal to County.

 

[IanM]

Wow Jim, that's news to me..

I guess in medals there is still an incentive to put in 17 reasonable holes after a XXXXXX (or maybe 15 )

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ours goes as far as loss of handicap for a set period which means a player cannot play anywhere including any comps they might have entered at another club.

We have been there once, the player involved totally ignored 3 written warnings.

When word gets round it does tend to stop others from ignoring the rules.

Particularly when the players find there is a £200 fee if they wish to appeal to County.

So you punish people for not returning a card ?

Why bother ? Is it that much of a deal - this is a supposed to leisure sport for us.

 

[jim8flog]

So you punish people for not returning a card ?

Why bother ? Is it that much of a deal - this is a supposed to leisure sport for us.

It was not just about not returning cards but also about not putting scores on to the PSI and attitudes towards the efforts that have to go in to running a competition by others.

" I have a bad day I just going to throw my card in to a rubbish bin"

The efforts that has to be gone through by office staff is into establishing whether it was us that that lost the card in them first place.
Our PSI is (was) located in a different office to where the cards are processed so the staff have to go back to where the cards are supposed to be put and do a thorough search of the cabinet and desk . Did it miss the slot , miss the bin. Has it fallen down the back/side of the desk next to the wall was it dropped in the hallway etc.
Contacting the player "did you put your card in the correct place etc"

Also when you are having 20+ players fields not entering cards on the PS1 or returning the cards in each of the comps (we often have 4 comps that need to be processed on a Monday morning) can you imagine the amount of extra work that places on the office staff . We were getting to the stage that it was taking several days to finalise a comp before we brought in our disciplinary procedures and just imagine how many players started to complain about the delay.

Lastly every players scores affects the CSS calculation so all players cards should be entered less some players not getting the correct handicap adjustments.

 

[williamalex1]

It was not just about not returning cards but also about not putting scores on to the PSI and attitudes towards the efforts that have to go in to running a competition by others.

" I have a bad day I just going to throw my card in to a rubbish bin"

The efforts that has to be gone through by office staff is into establishing whether it was us that that lost the card in them first place.
Our PSI is (was) located in a different office to where the cards are processed so the staff have to go back to where the cards are supposed to be put and do a thorough search of the cabinet and desk . Did it miss the slot , miss the bin. Has it fallen down the back/side of the desk next to the wall was it dropped in the hallway etc.
Contacting the player "did you put your card in the correct place etc"

Also when you are having 20+ players fields not entering cards on the PS1 or returning the cards in each of the comps (we often have 4 comps that need to be processed on a Monday morning) can you imagine the amount of extra work that places on the office staff . We were getting to the stage that it was taking several days to finalise a comp before we brought in our disciplinary procedures and just imagine how many players started to complain about the delay.

Lastly every players scores affects the CSS calculation so all players cards should be entered less some players not getting the correct handicap adjustments.

In the scheme of things what affect would it make to the CSS if a player NRs at a few holes or enters a crazy massive score, ATM he would still get point 1 increase

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It was not just about not returning cards but also about not putting scores on to the PSI and attitudes towards the efforts that have to go in to running a competition by others.

" I have a bad day I just going to throw my card in to a rubbish bin"

The efforts that has to be gone through by office staff is into establishing whether it was us that that lost the card in them first place.
Our PSI is (was) located in a different office to where the cards are processed so the staff have to go back to where the cards are supposed to be put and do a thorough search of the cabinet and desk . Did it miss the slot , miss the bin. Has it fallen down the back/side of the desk next to the wall was it dropped in the hallway etc.
Contacting the player "did you put your card in the correct place etc"

Also when you are having 20+ players fields not entering cards on the PS1 or returning the cards in each of the comps (we often have 4 comps that need to be processed on a Monday morning) can you imagine the amount of extra work that places on the office staff . We were getting to the stage that it was taking several days to finalise a comp before we brought in our disciplinary procedures and just imagine how many players started to complain about the delay.

Lastly every players scores affects the CSS calculation so all players cards should be entered less some players not getting the correct handicap adjustments.

So in the grand scheme of things nothing too serious then - and certainly not enough to even suggest suspension of handicap or “disciplinary” process - glad I’m not playing at a course like that

And any scorecard not returned is a DQ and one worse than buffer for CSS purposes so irrelevant if the player is having a poor score.

And yes spent years closing comps and doing scorecards .

 

[IanM]

I guess the offenders could be tied to the 100 yard post on the driving range and let everyone else fire at them?

One place I was a member stipulated that if you want to NR, please mark that on the card and stick it in the box so that it can be accounted for. I don't recall any sanction for doing so too many times.

Think I sit in the "be thoughtful towards the admin team" camp, it's only good manners. But if you are having a mare, it's up to you if you NR. (isn't it?)

One thing I do hate is when someone walks off mid round because they've played badly, leaving the other 2 to sort out cards and the get held up in a field of 3 balls. Hence, R, but keep playing/ marking

 

[jim8flog]

So in the grand scheme of things nothing too serious then - and certainly not enough to even suggest suspension of handicap or “disciplinary” process - glad I’m not playing at a course like that

And any scorecard not returned is a DQ and one worse than buffer for CSS purposes so irrelevant if the player is having a poor score.

And yes spent years closing comps and doing scorecards .

If you are still doing score cards just remember that under the WHS you are now required to do all this running around for a card not returned.