Nick and Nigel

Iaing said:
I find it ironic that the nutters that support the UKIP, seem to be the same people who decry the possibility of Scottish independence.

Little Englanders...:rofl:
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Please show us your evidence of this please, I haven't noticed a link between the two. Why are UKIP supporters 'Nutters'? There are a lot of them and to make such a sweeping statement is indicative of someone who is not thinking things through but 'shooting from the hip'. I am sure you can do better than that.
 
Adi2Dassler said:
an interesting point of view, and one I tend to agree with.Does that opinion still stand with Standard Life etc re@the other thread
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I suspect that moving a financial institution is a whole lot easier than a manufacturing based one... However, it would seem from what relatively little I've read, its a bit of a personal stance/view the main man of Standard Life is offering... Whether he has the backing of the board only time will tell...
 
Adi2Dassler said:
an interesting point of view, and one I tend to agree with.Does that opinion still stand with Standard Life etc re@the other thread
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In my experience (40+ years in Financial Services) companies like Standard Life & Scottish Widows seemed to see themselves as less Scottish after de-mutualisation.

Shame really because to many that reputation for careful yet still progressive financial management associated with the "Edinburgh Mafia" was seen as a strength.
 
What I find amazing is that a party that does not have one MP in England should be debating in this way with the deputy PM.
What is that all about.

Farage and his gang are the unacceptable face of English politics, the 'go to' protest vote. like the BNP/ National Front were a couple of decades ago.

Farage came on a recruiting drive to Scotland and the press did not even bother to turn up for his 'press conference'.
A handful of students started shouting at him and he played the 'undemocratic' card.
 
This debate was all about political strategies and nothing to do with Europe, at least not directly.

Farage saw it as a chance to position himself as a mainstream politician in the spotlight. He know he only had upside. None of this traditional supporters were going to go against him, he didn't have to discuss his absent or barking policies on anything else, and maybe even a few others would think he made some sense or at least was no worse than any of the other venal hypocrites. This has almost certainly worked in spades.

Clegg is toast at the next election with personal and party oblivion looming, so presumably he sees his next career in Europe, as some kind of ambassador for the EU, smoozing the world and building up directorships as he goes. It remains to be seen if this will work. He thought that his superior intelligence and narcism would overcome Farage's unsophisticated bootboy appeal. Oops.

On the substance, all the major parties know it would be fiscally suicidal to leave the EU. That will never happen, and the politicians won't allow a referendum that allows it to happen.
 
Ethan said:
On the substance, all the major parties know it would be fiscally suicidal to leave the EU. That will never happen, and the politicians won't allow a referendum that allows it to happen.
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Westminster was always going to find a way of wriggling out of any obligation to allow the great unwashed to have another say on EU membership... Way too much of a gravy train for career politicians...
 
Ethan said:
On the substance, all the major parties know it would be fiscally suicidal to leave the EU. That will never happen, and the politicians won't allow a referendum that allows it to happen.
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And why would it, in your opinion, be fiscal suicide? I hear this arguement a lot but always without any reasoned substance.

The case normally goes along the lines that most of our trade is with Europe and we would lose most of our jobs if we left. Does anyone actually believe the countries of Europe would stop trading with us, that they would stop selling their goods or buying ours. We are one of the few net contributers to the EU, we pay £66 Billion a year to be a member of this club. More than 90% of the UK economy is not involved in trade with the EU anyway.

Personally I would like to to remain in the single market but without the Euro State intervention into our laws and treaties, failing that I would prefer us out. Please educate me as to where I am wrong here (Without sweeping statements like "it would be fiscally suicidal to leave the EU")
 
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SocketRocket said:
And why would it, in your opinion, be fiscal suicide? I hear this arguement a lot but always without any reasoned substance.

The case normally goes along the lines that most of our trade is with Europe and we would lose most of our jobs if we left. Does anyone actually believe the countries of Europe would stop trading with us, that they would stop selling their goods or buying ours. We are one of the few net contributers to the EU, we pay £66 Billion a year to be a member of this club. More than 90% of the UK economy is not involved in trade with the EU anyway.

Personally I would like to to remain in the single market but without the Euro State intervention into our laws and treaties, failing that I would prefer us out. Please educate me as to where I am wrong here (Without sweeping statements like "it would be fiscally suicidal to leave the EU")
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You have not quoted what is returned in subsidies or grants, you fail to mention the affect on the UK GDP, you have not mentioned which regulations have caused you upset ... Or has Murdoch not informed you and just given you some mumbo jumbo cobblers to quote or get hot under the collar about? Seriously put the Murdoch paper down and walk away from it.
 
SocketRocket said:
There is a misconception made regarding us leaving the EU and it's that if we did we would lose all our trade with them. Does anyone honestly believe that would happen, would Mercedes, Fiat,Volvo, Audi, Skoda, BMW Et Al not want to sell any of their cars to us, would that apply to all the other products that flood into the UK from Europe? Of course they would want to sell them and it would not be in their interest to apply trade barriers as they would lose out due to us importing more than we export.

Our membership costs us a lot of money indeed and we are one of the few net positive contributors. We have a door to the whole world to open trade agreements but we are hampered by the shackles of the big Euro state. I have confidence in my country and believe we can stand on our own feet and don't need the over regulation and shackles of the 'Gravy Train' to regulate us. We did it well enough before.

I would much rather live in the USA than what will be the United States of Europe, but I would prefer to live in Britain and one that can control it's own destiny, laws and trade. If you don't want that then live in France, you wont be missed :)
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Spot on ==If we come out of the EU and stop giving them £55 million a day the EU would fold == Just think what we could do with all that cash to lend to business in the UK,== and we are able to make our OWN LAWS.=== We need a proper debate as a lot of people don't know who to belive. ===Our political elite trust us to vote for THEM but wont trust us in a in or out vote on the EU.
 
harpo_72 said:
You have not quoted what is returned in subsidies or grants, you fail to mention the affect on the UK GDP, you have not mentioned which regulations have caused you upset ... Or has Murdoch not informed you and just given you some mumbo jumbo cobblers to quote or get hot under the collar about? Seriously put the Murdoch paper down and walk away from it.
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I made some serious points in my post and was responding to a previous post> why not try replying to them instead of making silly personal insults.
 
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The one good thing about UKIP imo, is that they are forcing the more mainstream parties into a proper discussion about the EU and immigration. Something that I think is long overdue. A sensible, grown up debate on these issues can only be a good thing.
 
c1973 said:
The one good thing about UKIP imo, is that they are forcing the more mainstream parties into a proper discussion about the EU and immigration. Something that I think is long overdue. A sensible, grown up debate on these issues can only be a good thing.
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I agree with the grown up debate. The pro EU's just like socialists would rather throw unfounded insults at people that have different views rather than debate the matter properly, this has always been their modus operandi.. Nick Cleggs television debate showed his to be just like this.
 
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