New handicap system

[nickjdavis]

- not sure if the Div splits are a club matter or are mandated?)

Clubs are free to define their handicap divisions as they see fit.

We use an automatic facility within our comp software that splits the field up into three equally sized divisions....this may mean that one week an 18 h'cap might fall in div 2, another week it falls in Div 3.....it matters not a jot to the players, as the prize fund allocation for each of the three Divisions is exactly the same.

 

[Backache]

Our club championship is a 36 hole scratch qualifier followed by matchplay knockout for the best 16 qualifiers.
You have to have a handicap of 12 or less to get into the qualifier.
The senior championship is played at the same time and does not have a handicap restriction.
It actually boggles my mind slightly that there are club champions based on handicap.

 

[AliMc]

Our club championship is a 36 hole scratch qualifier followed by matchplay knockout for the best 16 qualifiers.
You have to have a handicap of 12 or less to get into the qualifier.
The senior championship is played at the same time and does not have a handicap restriction.
It actually boggles my mind slightly that there are club champions based on handicap.

Ours is similar, 2 gross scores from 3 qualifing medals, top 16 into scratch matchplay, also B,C and Senior matchplay from same route, those from the B and C category can qualify for a higher category if they shoot good enough scores, simply can't get my head round it being h'cap based

 

[jim8flog]

Our club championship is a 36 hole scratch qualifier followed by matchplay knockout for the best 16 qualifiers.
You have to have a handicap of 12 or less to get into the qualifier.
The senior championship is played at the same time and does not have a handicap restriction.
It actually boggles my mind slightly that there are club champions based on handicap.

We run both concurrently in such a format that any player can play in both championships, both comps are open to any handicap player but we only pay prizes for best gross scores in the gross championship which normally means that there is only rarely a player in it who is not a single figure player.
Day one is the first round of the handicap champ, day two first group out is 1st round of gross this round counts as the second round for players who entered both, second group out are players who are playing the second round of the handicap champ and the last group out are the players playing the second round of gross championship.

Seniors simply have 2 rounds with a gross and a nett champion this is actually played over two separate Mondays to allow for the fact that many seniors cannot play 36 in a day or on 2 consecutive days.

 

[IanM]

Our club championship is a 36 hole scratch qualifier followed by match play knockout for the best 16 qualifiers.
It actually boggles my mind slightly that there are club champions based on handicap.

Our is same except the top 15, plus the defending champion. (who in recent memory has always qualified by right) so effectively it's the top 16.

It needs to mean something... if your Club Champion didn't break 100 to win, it is a bit soppy!

 

[peld]

In our club champs we now have 3 brackets
Qualifier is two rounds, one on each course over a weekend.

Top 16 scratch scores (regardless of handicap) > main knockout flight played off scratch > club champion
then
Top 16 scratch for HCI over 12 > Second flight played off scratch
then
Top 16 handicap scores > handicap flight using handicaps

The latter two flights get a trophy/prize but only the club champ gets on a Board.

As has been said, I cant fathom how a Club Championship can be decided on handicap in this current system

 

[D-S]

Clubs are free to define their handicap divisions as they see fit.

We use an automatic facility within our comp software that splits the field up into three equally sized divisions....this may mean that one week an 18 h'cap might fall in div 2, another week it falls in Div 3.....it matters not a jot to the players, as the prize fund allocation for each of the three Divisions is exactly the same.

That's interesting, which software provider do you use?

 

[jim8flog]

That's interesting, which software provider do you use?

We do similarly to Peld and use IG

 

[nickjdavis]

That's interesting, which software provider do you use?

Handicapmaster

 

[TerryA]

My view is that if you pay your membership fee and are a high handicap golfer then you should be entitled to the same chance to win as a low handicap golfer.

 

[RRidges]

@Tonythetiger Can you please change the title of this thread to something more appropriate - such as 'Club Championship Scratch or Handicap'.
It is entirely unrelated to the implementation of WHS!

 

[Backache]

My view is that if you pay your membership fee and are a high handicap golfer then you should be entitled to the same chance to win as a low handicap golfer.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by entitled to win and to win what.
If you join most sports clubs such as tennis, squash, athletics etc. Your membership usually entitles you to use the facilities and to enter competitions, it gives no entitlement to win anything.
Golf has a handicap system that can be used in some competitions to roughly give competitors the same chance of winning and that's fine and is used a lot.
I don't think it should be used for things like club championships and all competitions. There should be some where excellence is rewarded rather than the ability to play above the sometimes pitiful level of your last twenty rounds.

 

[Slab]

Our club championship is a 36 hole scratch qualifier followed by matchplay knockout for the best 16 qualifiers.
You have to have a handicap of 12 or less to get into the qualifier.
The senior championship is played at the same time and does not have a handicap restriction.
It actually boggles my mind slightly that there are club champions based on handicap.

Ours is similar, 2 gross scores from 3 qualifing medals, top 16 into scratch matchplay, also B,C and Senior matchplay from same route, those from the B and C category can qualify for a higher category if they shoot good enough scores, simply can't get my head round it being h'cap based

As usual clubs will (ideally) run whatever kind of Club Championship suits both the club and its members, & hopefully you both have what suits yours, however it wont be for every club

Our Club Champs is next month and as usual its a 2 day 36 hole event open to all members who have played in sufficient number of comps during the year, equal prizes for the Nett & Gross winners and our Club Champion will be the nett winner
Its just like our two other ‘Majors’. Our annual Order of Merit winner is played as a handicap competition, Our Matchplay Champion is a handicap competition and so our Club Championship is a handicap competition

We all know who the best golfer is within the club (lowest handicap) and who the best golfer is at Club Champs (lowest 36 hole gross that weekend) and they absolutely deserve recognition & plaudits for achieving that, it just doesn’t include being called ‘Club Champion’ unless they also perform the best relative to their handicap on Club Champs weekend

 

[Crazyface]

I always thought 28 was too high and that that 18 should be the maximum HC for comps.

But it’s not the fault of the WHS. It’s the fault of whoever decided to increase the HC limit.

Some clubs put limits on handicaps that can win their top comps. That's the way to do it in my opinion. If you want to win one of them be a better golfer.

 

[Backache]

As usual clubs will (ideally) run whatever kind of Club Championship suits both the club and its members, & hopefully you both have what suits yours, however it wont be for every club

I agree that it's up to the club but it still slightly boggles me. I think handicap competitions are fine but golf is also a sport and sporting achievement in my view should be rewarded.
Breaking 100 for the first time is very satisfying but it is a personal achievement rather than one which in my view could gain recognition as the clubs champions golfer.
As you say it is up to the club but my mind remains boggled.( And I speak as a high handicapper)

 

[Slab]

I agree that it's up to the club but it still slightly boggles me. I think handicap competitions are fine but golf is also a sport and sporting achievement in my view should be rewarded.
Breaking 100 for the first time is very satisfying but it is a personal achievement rather than one which in my view could gain recognition as the clubs champions golfer.
As you say it is up to the club but my mind remains boggled.( And I speak as a high handicapper)

Yeah I can see that, and because that hasn’t ever happened at our Club I can’t really be certain what the reaction would be if a couple of 99’s was enough to be club champ, might be a helluva AGM at years-end though !

(The devils advocate in me thinks that a -1 fella shooting a couple shots worse than their handicap both days (but still a lower gross than anyone else that weekend) does that really represent a ‘Champions’ performance. Its just another way to measure the field that weekend)

Something has to be chosen and for many (most) places it'll be lowest gross... but as usual one size doesn't fit all

 

[Orikoru]

I love the fact that handicaps make golf unique and everyone can compete - without that I think you'd see a lot less members in golf clubs. But I also think there should be more scratch comps/prizes throughout the year. Not for my benefit as I'd be nowhere near it, but I do think low handicappers have it tough in Stablefords and even medals when they have to shoot course records to compete. I think Club Champs might be the only one all year at my place that actually is a gross prize. I think it would be better to have maybe 4 or 5 gross prizes in majors across the year (probably in addition to a net prize so you don't have far less people entering) - especially now that handicaps are up to 54 with a baffling handicap system that only reflects a few weeks of form if you put enough cards in.

 

[jim8flog]

I love the fact that handicaps make golf unique and everyone can compete - without that I think you'd see a lot less members in golf clubs. But I also think there should be more scratch comps/prizes throughout the year. Not for my benefit as I'd be nowhere near it, but I do think low handicappers have it tough in Stablefords and even medals when they have to shoot course records to compete. I think Club Champs might be the only one all year at my place that actually is a gross prize. I think it would be better to have maybe 4 or 5 gross prizes in majors across the year (probably in addition to a net prize so you don't have far less people entering) - especially now that handicaps are up to 54 with a baffling handicap system that only reflects a few weeks of form if you put enough cards in.

We used to have a scratch knockout comp but it was discontinued because so few players entered it.

Our scratch champs had just 24 entrants.

Hardly worth us running regular scratch comps. Our April to Oct Saturday comps are handicap stroke play played in divisions and Div 1 is well supported Saturday medals also pay out a best gross prize (or they used to, I have not had best gross for some years)

 

[Swango1980]

It might have been said. However, this appears to be nothing to do with the handicap system. Your issue is that you think the Seniors Champion should go to the lowest gross score. That is fair enough, and many will agree that your opinion makes sense. However, your frustration should be directed towards the Competition Committee for deciding that it should be a handicap competition and not scratch, not towards the handicap system.

If this 33 handicapper had NOT have won, who would have been the champion. What was their handicap? Was it 30, 25, 20, 15, 10, etc? Would they have been worthy champions, over and above lower handicappers that shot a lower gross score? If not, then I'd assumed you'd only be happy by removing all the top finishers until you got to the guy who shot the lowest gross?

 

[FourPutt]

I love the fact that handicaps make golf unique and everyone can compete - without that I think you'd see a lot less members in golf clubs. But I also think there should be more scratch comps/prizes throughout the year. Not for my benefit as I'd be nowhere near it, but I do think low handicappers have it tough in Stablefords and even medals when they have to shoot course records to compete. I think Club Champs might be the only one all year at my place that actually is a gross prize. I think it would be better to have maybe 4 or 5 gross prizes in majors across the year (probably in addition to a net prize so you don't have far less people entering) - especially now that handicaps are up to 54 with a baffling handicap system that only reflects a few weeks of form if you put enough cards in.

Agree, especially as in the example above a course record would still get beat by half a dozen shots.

On another note, I am sure (though I could be wrong!) that I have seen/heard of (scratch) comps that are all club champions. Surely suggests that it is expected that a club champion is someone who can compete in a scratch comp?

Although imagine the laughs if you turned up to one as the only high handicapper in a field of scratch and better handicaps. Puts me in mind of the “’ave it!” John Smiths guy from the adverts in the 90s/00s