New handicap system. An American view

[Orikoru]

Wasn't the initial intention for us all to enter ALL our scores, whether friendly knocks or not? What happened to that?

Seems now it's like nothing will have changed.... Almost struggling to see the whole point of it really..

They must have realised people weren't going to stop giving gimmes and taking 'illegal' drops in their friendlies round so they relaxed their intentions on this.

 

[RangeMonkey]

They must have realised people weren't going to stop giving gimmes and taking 'illegal' drops in their friendlies round so they relaxed their intentions on this.

Frankly it would have been - imho - ridiculous to require submission for every round. For the reasons already discussed, and because it would have meant it would be impossible to have a round where you wanted try new shots, new course management techniques, or even return from injury, without negatively impacting your handicap.

 

[patricks148]

Frankly it would have been - imho - ridiculous to require submission for every round. For the reasons already discussed, and because it would have meant it would be impossible to have a round where you wanted try new shots, new course management techniques, or even return from injury, without negatively impacting your handicap.

prob shows how American handicaps are so much lower, but it would remove the nerves some have with a card in their hands and play well in bounce games and MP where as soon as they have card in the back pocket can't get lower.

 

[Orikoru]

Frankly it would have been - imho - ridiculous to require submission for every round. For the reasons already discussed, and because it would have meant it would be impossible to have a round where you wanted try new shots, new course management techniques, or even return from injury, without negatively impacting your handicap.

I'd say it would be pretty much impossible to make it a requirement anyway. If you go out for a quiet round, go home with your card or don't take a card in the first place, how would they ever police that?

 

[patricks148]

I'd say it would be pretty much impossible to make it a requirement anyway. If you go out for a quiet round, go home with your card or don't take a card in the first place, how would they ever police that?

they don't thats how you get to be a 4 handicap and have never broken 90

 

[rulefan]

I'd say it would be pretty much impossible to make it a requirement anyway. If you go out for a quiet round, go home with your card or don't take a card in the first place, how would they ever police that?

The key is in bold. Don't predeclare and there is no issue. If you do, then you must (should) post.

 

[Swango1980]

Wasn't the initial intention for us all to enter ALL our scores, whether friendly knocks or not? What happened to that?

Seems now it's like nothing will have changed.... Almost struggling to see the whole point of it really..

I thought when I first heard about WHS that was the intention, but that probably came from the fact that I believe they do that in the US, and initially the rumours were that the WHS would just be the US handicap system polished up a little (maybe some will still define it like that?).

I agree what others have posted though, seems ridiculous if every round was to count. The mentality of a social round is completely different to a competitive qualifying round, and it can work both ways. Some, in social golf, play really well and yet in a competition they crumble under the pressure. They'd never win a comp again if their social golf counted to handicap. Conversely, in social golf I tend to experiment a little with my shot types, especially if I've had a bad hole early on and see no point in aiming for a good score as I'll not exactly break any records. But in competitions I'd be more focused, more concentration on all shots, including putts. So, I reckon I'd get a higher handicap if all my social golf was taken into account.

And, yes, how would you police it. Anytime a golfer signs in and goes out, force them to hand a card in? Not likely to entice people to play if all they want to do is go out for a bit of a practice knock around game with their mates.

 

[rulefan]

I thought when I first heard about WHS that was the intention, but that probably came from the fact that I believe they do that in the US, and initially the rumours were that the WHS would just be the US handicap system polished up a little (maybe some will still define it like that?).

I agree what others have posted though, seems ridiculous if every round was to count. The mentality of a social round is completely different to a competitive qualifying round, and it can work both ways. Some, in social golf, play really well and yet in a competition they crumble under the pressure. They'd never win a comp again if their social golf counted to handicap. Conversely, in social golf I tend to experiment a little with my shot types, especially if I've had a bad hole early on and see no point in aiming for a good score as I'll not exactly break any records. But in competitions I'd be more focused, more concentration on all shots, including putts. So, I reckon I'd get a higher handicap if all my social golf was taken into account.

And, yes, how would you police it. Anytime a golfer signs in and goes out, force them to hand a card in? Not likely to entice people to play if all they want to do is go out for a bit of a practice knock around game with their mates.

I think there was an expectation that "all scores" wouldn't manage to cross the Atlantic. It is part of the USGA system but very sloppily honoured or enforced. The words in the WHS are supposed to add a bit of discipline . However, 4BBB strokeplay may well arrive in a few years.

The biggest changes to affect CONGU are the 8/20 calculation and the introduction of slope. Both of which I would strongly endorse.

 

[TheJezster]

The entering of all cards is literally just a mindset. If that was what we all had to do, it would soon become the norm. If you take the emotion out of it, I can see the point of wanting to do this.

If you have your current mindset, then of course it wouldn't work, but the point is, you'd soon change your mindset and if everyone did the same, it really wouldn't be an issue.

Things move on, policies change, we get used to them. It would very quickly become the new normal.

 

[Swango1980]

The entering of all cards is literally just a mindset. If that was what we all had to do, it would soon become the norm. If you take the emotion out of it, I can see the point of wanting to do this.

If you have your current mindset, then of course it wouldn't work, but the point is, you'd soon change your mindset and if everyone did the same, it really wouldn't be an issue.

Things move on, policies change, we get used to them. It would very quickly become the new normal.

Surely, though, when we are posting a score for handicap, the mindset we have (most of us anyway) is to try and score as well as we can? If we were forced to post EVERY round, does that mean every time we go out we should really try and play our best? If so, what about those of us, especially those that are luckily enough to play several times a week, that just want to go out and practice, experiment a little. Would it be OK to submit that card, even if the round was way higher than normal?

Personally, I think it is fine the way it is, and how it is proposed to be. There is nothing stopping you from posting every social round if you want (unless you are a Cat 1 golfer currently), so long as you declare it. But, if you don't want to, no one is twisting your arm to do so.

 

[TheJezster]

Surely, though, when we are posting a score for handicap, the mindset we have (most of us anyway) is to try and score as well as we can? If we were forced to post EVERY round, does that mean every time we go out we should really try and play our best? If so, what about those of us, especially those that are luckily enough to play several times a week, that just want to go out and practice, experiment a little. Would it be OK to submit that card, even if the round was way higher than normal?

Personally, I think it is fine the way it is, and how it is proposed to be. There is nothing stopping you from posting every social round if you want (unless you are a Cat 1 golfer currently), so long as you declare it. But, if you don't want to, no one is twisting your arm to do so.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not proposing anything, or even 'FOR' the system, I'm simply saying, IF we did have to enter every card, it would be the same for everyone and our mindset would soon change.

Don't think about it in such detail, just play the way you want to play and enter your card after, it really would be that simple.

The main problem with change is that people get too invested in their own beliefs of what is right, the emotion stops them moving forward. If we take this out and just play golf and enter cards, it would soon sort itself out.

As I said, I'm not saying I think we should change, just that if we were to, our mindsets would soon adapt. We're clever us humans ;-)

 

[Swango1980]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not proposing anything, or even 'FOR' the system, I'm simply saying, IF we did have to enter every card, it would be the same for everyone and our mindset would soon change.

Don't think about it in such detail, just play the way you want to play and enter your card after, it really would be that simple.

The main problem with change is that people get too invested in their own beliefs of what is right, the emotion stops them moving forward. If we take this out and just play golf and enter cards, it would soon sort itself out.

As I said, I'm not saying I think we should change, just that if we were to, our mindsets would soon adapt. We're clever us humans ;-)

True, I bet they said that when the United Kingdom joined the European Communites (EC) in 1973

 

[TheJezster]

Yea, they didn't bank on Cameron holding a referendum and then the rest of parliament screwing things up beyond control did they...

Ah well, suppose that's a topic for another day and thread!

 

[cliveb]

Wasn't the initial intention for us all to enter ALL our scores, whether friendly knocks or not? What happened to that?

Seems now it's like nothing will have changed.... Almost struggling to see the whole point of it really..

Handing in lots more cards isn't the only point of the new system. (Is it even a point at all here in the UK?)

There's another very good reason to adopt the WHS - the slope system means that handicap indexes will actually be representative of ability so that players from different clubs can compete on a genuinely level playing field. As far as I'm concerned, that's a far more important reason to make the change.

 

[Swango1980]

Handing in lots more cards isn't the only point of the new system. (Is it even a point at all here in the UK?)

There's another very good reason to adopt the WHS - the slope system means that handicap indexes will actually be representative of ability so that players from different clubs can compete on a genuinely level playing field. As far as I'm concerned, that's a far more important reason to make the change.

Is that not what SSS is for? Granted, apparently the slope system will still be fairer, but I just don't understand who it is fairer for (people from different clubs, low handicappers, high handicappers)?

I actually thought the main point was to get the whole world on a consistent system.

 

[cliveb]

Is that not what SSS is for? Granted, apparently the slope system will still be fairer, but I just don't understand who it is fairer for (people from different clubs, low handicappers, high handicappers)?

SSS only tells you how difficult a course is for a scratch player. The relative difficulty for handicap golfers varies from course to course. As a result, people whose home course is difficult (for the bogey golfer) tend to have relatively high handicaps - which gives them an advantage against players whose home courses are easy.

So to answer your question, the slope system primarily makes it fairer between golfers from different clubs.

I actually thought the main point was to get the whole world on a consistent system.

Well, that too, of course.

 

[rulefan]

So to answer your question, the slope system primarily makes it fairer between golfers from different clubs.

It also makes it fairer for all players on all courses. Which it was why the rest of Europe adopted it yonks ago. I was only the intransigence of the then EGU that stopped it.

 

[User20204]

SSS only tells you how difficult a course is for a scratch player. The relative difficulty for handicap golfers varies from course to course. As a result, people whose home course is difficult (for the bogey golfer) tend to have relatively high handicaps - which gives them an advantage against players whose home courses are easy.

So to answer your question, the slope system primarily makes it fairer between golfers from different clubs.


.

I know this has probably been answered numerous times, however, does this mean that I can go to a different course and play with a different index than I do at my home course ?? e.g. 10 at home then the very next day 12 at another place holding an open ??

 

[Swango1980]

I know this has probably been answered numerous times, however, does this mean that I can go to a different course and play with a different index than I do at my home course ?? e.g. 10 at home then the very next day 12 at another place holding an open ??

You index stays the same, but you never use you Index to play off anyway. You use your index to the calculate your playing handicap at any course. So your playing handicap will be different, which I think is what you were getting at?

From what I see, if you have a relatively low handicap, you'll not often see much of a change on playing handicap from course to course. But, higher handicappers will see a bigger difference. If I've understood it correctly.

 

[Swango1980]

I assume your handicap index is calculated using the differential against the Course Rating rather than Course Par? So, if my course rating was 1 over par, 35 points would be playing to handicap rather than 36. If so, is CR similar to SSS?

Reason I ask, if you had a Handicap Index of 0, you'd have a playing handicap of 0 at the easiest course in the world and the hardest course in the world. Whereas higher handicappers will get relatively fewer shots (compared to low handicappers) at very easy courses but relatively more shots at very hard courses?

Not sure if it's starting to make sense, or I'm just living a dream.