Nearest point of relief

[woody69]

Just a random question on NPOR. As far as I know it is the following:

It is the point where the ball would be positioned in a simulated stance of how the player would have played his next stroke had the obstruction or condition not been there. In some cases the nearest point of relief may be in a bush, tree, etc.

How can a point inside a bush/tree be classified as a point of relief? Is this one of the rules that potentially penalises a player twice?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Yup, if that is NPR, then that is it. The point is you shouldn't be there in the first place...

 

[muttleee]

You're only entitled to relief from the path, not nearby bushes/trees/rough etc. If your nearest point of relief is in a bush, that's just hard luck.

 

[Region3]

You are not being penalised twice, because NPR only applies when getting free relief.

There is no such thing as NPR when taking a penalty drop.

 

[Foxholer]

Relief is from a single obstruction/condition.

The fact that there's another potential problem nearby is beside the point.

 

[rulefan]

In some cases the nearest point of relief may be in a bush, tree, etc.

How can a point inside a bush/tree be classified as a point of relief? Is this one of the rules that potentially penalises a player twice?

But you don't have to drop the ball in the tree.

 

[Leftie]

It's the NPOR from the obstruction from which you want relief.

If you don't like the option, you can always play it as it lies.

 

[rulefan]

Or use Rule 28

 

[woody69]

Thanks for all the replies. It's a good point to note that it is a free drop of of course you don't have to take it, or can take stroke&distance, but I still think it can be a little harsh, but I guess that's the rub of the green isn't it and what golf is ultimately about. As someone said, you're not supposed to be there anyway!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Here's another example. You are close by a staked tree and entitled to relief. But the staked tree is in the middle of a bush. Your NPR is most likely to be in that bush and that is where you will have to drop it. Then if you can't play it as it's still in the bush - well you have to declare unplayable and proceed accordingly.

Of course you mighty be lucky - hit your ball into a bush and you find a staked tree towards the edge of the bush - and then when you drop at your NPR the ball bounces out of the bush - still within one club length of the NPR and not nearer the hole - but hey - who said golf should always be fair

 

[rulefan]

Here's another example. You are close by a staked tree and entitled to relief. But the staked tree is in the middle of a bush. Your NPR is most likely to be in that bush and that is where you will have to drop it. Then if you can't play it as it's still in the bush - well you have to declare unplayable and proceed accordingly.

Of course you mighty be lucky - hit your ball into a bush and you find a staked tree towards the edge of the bush - and then when you drop at your NPR the ball bounces out of the bush - still within one club length of the NPR and not nearer the hole - but hey - who said golf should always be fair

Just to be clear. You don't have to drop your ball at the NPR. You may drop it within 1 clublength not nearer the hole. That will give you an arc in which to drop the ball.

However, you should always look carefully at the area where you may be dropping AND at the further 2 clublengths the ball is allowed to roll, before you lift the ball. Once it is lifted, you are committed to either taking relief or a penalty (or both).

 

[Region3]

Just a quick slightly related question....

If the NPR is (for argument's sake) 2' further away from the hole than the original position of the ball before relief, and the ball rolls forward when dropping so that it's 1' closer to the hole than the NPR, is it....

A) Ok because it's behind where the ball originally was
B) Not ok because it's closer to the hole than the NPR

Thanks

 

[muttleee]

Just a quick slightly related question....

If the NPR is (for argument's sake) 2' further away from the hole than the original position of the ball before relief, and the ball rolls forward when dropping so that it's 1' closer to the hole than the NPR, is it....

A) Ok because it's behind where the ball originally was
B) Not ok because it's closer to the hole than the NPR

Thanks

A. The ball can be within a clublength of the NPR in any direction as long as it's not nearer the hole that where it originally lay.

 

[Foxholer]

A. The ball can be within a clublength of the NPR in any direction as long as it's not nearer the hole that where it originally lay.

H'mm...

An extract from the Dropping Rule on when it must be re-dropped..

(vii) rolls and comes to rest nearer the hole than:
(a) its original position or estimated position (see Rule 20-2b) unless otherwise permitted by the Rules; or
(b) the nearest point of relief or maximum available relief (Rule 24-2, 25-1 or 25-3); or
(c) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or lateral water hazard (Rule 26-1).


(b) is the relevant sub-clause here, so B is the correct answer.

The relief section of the relevant Rule states this too....e.g.

Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief.

NPR is also 'not nearer the hole'.

 

[duncan mackie]

Just a quick slightly related question....

If the NPR is (for argument's sake) 2' further away from the hole than the original position of the ball before relief, and the ball rolls forward when dropping so that it's 1' closer to the hole than the NPR, is it....

A) Ok because it's behind where the ball originally was
B) Not ok because it's closer to the hole than the NPR

Thanks

B for relief situations :thup:

 

[rulefan]

A. The ball can be within a clublength of the NPR in any direction as long as it's not nearer the hole that where it originally lay.

The NPR must not be nearer the hole than the original spot so the position of the drop cannot be nearer than either. Try the geometry.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Hmm

If the ball could bounce nearer the hole than the "NPR", but not nearer than the spot where the ball originally was, and still end up where there is no intereference from the condition, then I dont think you can have identified the NPR correctly.

 

[Foxholer]

Hmm

If the ball could bounce nearer the hole than the "NPR", but not nearer than the spot where the ball originally was, and still end up where there is no intereference from the condition, then I dont think you can have identified the NPR correctly.

I can certainly think of situation where that would be possible! A path/road at an angle to line towards hole can be responsible. Also staked tree, when the relief (of swing) is away from the hole. In fact any time where NPR is away from the hole!

Remember that you can drop it up to 1 club length from NPR!

 

[duncan mackie]

The NPR must not be nearer the hole than the original spot so the position of the drop cannot be nearer than either. Try the geometry.

Hmm

If the ball could bounce nearer the hole than the "NPR", but not nearer than the spot where the ball originally was, and still end up where there is no intereference from the condition, then I dont think you can have identified the NPR correctly.

I think you are both wrong in respect of muttleee's post - he neither commented on the position of the drop, nor is the relationship between the original spot and the NPR a relevant factor.

It's wrong for the specific reason in the rules already quoted

 

[Colin L]

Hmm

If the ball could bounce nearer the hole than the "NPR", but not nearer than the spot where the ball originally was, and still end up where there is no intereference from the condition, then I dont think you can have identified the NPR correctly.

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