Natural Golf or Technical???

[thecraw]

I'm 95% FOR technical golf and structured tuition that believes the fastest and most efficient way to get better is to aspire to the text-book technique or best current thinking.

Consider for a moment that I know zero about Golf but coach something similar (which I do). Players can and frequently DO achieve colossal heights through natural and unorthodox technique. It is rarely the fastest way to get from a-b but often the "student" is so far down one road that attempting a re-build of technique basics is impossible (or nigh on).

Many years ago, techniques and playing styles were all a bit muddled, mostly by the lack international coherency. These days, players and coaches travel the world, share ideas and the "technical" ideal is narrowing year by year.

As the boundaries of correct technique move in on all sides, the only outcome is that highly coached players will look more similar year on year. Nothing wrong with having an identical swing to hundreds of other players, it's what you do with it after that....and your ability/inspiration/work ethic.

The idea that "you can do what you want" from a technical perspective has almost been completely thrown out the window. My cousin (Mark Petchy) would undoubtedly say that players NOT prepared to put in the work and aspire to the ideal and most consistent technique are doomed to failure. Look at Andy Murray, as his technique gets closer to perfection and his inspiration grows he is knocking on the door of no.3 spot.....

As much of my income is from coaching, I personally find it sad that folk keep banging on about making the best of what they have and NOT challenging their basic(s) technique. There are things that one can overcome by hard work, but there are also things where the only efficient progress can be made by improving technique.

If I didn't approve of technical teaching, my students would be miles behind where they are.

This is a response that I was hoping for. In golf, who is to say one way is right technique and another is wrong. Take Furyk again as an example, why is his swing not correct and everyone else who is more "orthadox" right?

Who is to say that a strong right hand grip is not the correct way or best mothod of teaching? Why mess with something that is natural to the player because its perceived to be wrong?

What works well for Hogan doesnt always work well for the likes of a Stenson or Woods.

 

[thecraw]

its a bit of both the more natural tallent the less technical support you need. But one correction: Anthony Kim has a very different swing to Rory McIlroy.

What I was getting at with that comment is that they have both clearly been coached from a young age, they are not natural swings and while they may look different they both actively "set" the club on the take away.

It may not have been worded the best.

 

[CrapHacker]

This is a response that I was hoping for. In golf, who is to say one way is right technique and another is wrong. Take Furyk again as an example, why is his swing not correct and everyone else who is more "orthadox" right?

Who is to say that a strong right hand grip is not the correct way or best mothod of teaching? Why mess with something that is natural to the player because its perceived to be wrong?

What works well for Hogan doesnt always work well for the likes of a Stenson or Woods.

This thread is confusing me

What you're saying seems to me to be pretty much flying against everything RGDave is saying himself.

He says there is no excuse not to improve basic technique if it is 'wrong' ( and there is only one 'best' way ).

And you're saying what is natural is best if it is ingrained and repeatable.

I've definately seen players reach the peak of their skills with unorthodox technique, and then they have made things worse when they have tried to change things too radically to play with a better more 'repeatable' swing that won't let them down when the pressure is on.

And then they disappear never to be seen again.

So for these guys sticking with what works for them would have been a better option - they may not have won many tour events, but if you can earn top ten money often enough, you'll still get a nice retirement package when you hang up the spikes.

But there's not been a world beater that has anything too different, except of course Nicklaus's elbow, come to think of it. Furyk will never be world no. 1, although he's done good - damn good, over the years. Couples never was, but his swing looked pretty good to me. Some might mention Monty as never fulfilling his potential.

Woods and Mickleson have dominated and are technically pretty perfect I believe.

Is it fair to say Furyk hasn't got the mental strength to get to world no.1 partly because he wasn't willing to change his swing at the right point, a la Faldo ? Or would it be fairer to say he must be mentally stronger than most to actually get as far as he has and make his obviously flawed swing stand up to the huge pressure of the run in on a Sunday afternoon ?

Yup, I'm still confused, just in case you weren't sure

 

[MVP]

My natural swing is consistent but not how i like it so i improve it with the technical stuff!

 

[clubchamp07]

Must be one of the best POST's thus far. imo

I'm for natural here, I've been playing golf for comming on 30 yrs and only have had lesson's when I was a junior. My track record at my club speaks for it's self. Only a few weeks ago a few of us went to the range with our assisant pro, unfortunately he came over to me and told me a few thing's. It has blown my mind. I'm now thinking about my swing and what it looks like to other's. I agree with mono, grip it and rip it. I think as we only play a few time's a week (if we're luck) to try and go by the text book on swings is a no no for us. These guys on tour practise for hours on end, maybe as much as 8 hours a day. I always think about someone trying to tell us how to cast a fishing rod. How the hell does if make a difference on how you cast aslong as the fish see's the worm. If I can swing the way I swing and play to my handicap I'm more than happy. After all it's down to putting and getting the wee white ball into the tiny hole. So no need for a 300yrd drive.
I just hope I can go back to the way I was swinging before I'm up a shot, half way there already.

 

[freddielong]

The answer depends on how far you want to go in the game.

A good professional should be able to enhance what you have, and by ironing out inconsistencies should be able to make you a better player without turning you into a clone.

I would say that lessons are very important and to re use the initial example how many lesson do you think Furyk has had.

 

[thecraw]

The answer depends on how far you want to go in the game.

A good professional should be able to enhance what you have, and by ironing out inconsistencies should be able to make you a better player without turning you into a clone.

I would say that lessons are very important and to re use the initial example how many lesson do you think Furyk has had.

I would say Furyk has had hundreds of lessons, his father is a pro and his coach!

 

[freddielong]

Exactly and still has his own way of getting the job done thats what a good teacher can do

 

[thecraw]

And this thread is nothing to do with Furyks teacher its to do with natural golf, Furyk has a system that is natural to him.

Natural golf is about hitting the ball, not worrying about swing thoughts and technique, how many lessons have you had where a teacher/pro says that grip is wrong?

Why is it wrong if its natural too you, just because overlap worked best for Vardon it does not mean that its the correct grip to be used, its also the same with Jack and his interlock, again why is this grip perceived to be correct as well?

 

[freddielong]

Again the guys you are talking about had hundreds of lessons (Seve's older brothers were pro golfers and will have instilled the need for sound fundamentals ) the point I was trying to get to was natural golf is fine as long as you can consistantly reproduce what you are doing (which usually requires your hands to be in the right place at the right time etc) otherwise you need to have really good hand eye co ordination.

I think that you (for some reason) seem to think that natural golf is something you are born with and every thing else is taught. Look at guys like Lee Trevino who had a swing very personal to him, but he worked his butt of to get it to work had hundreds of lessons so he could know it inside out.

My guess is you have had a lesson the pro has told you to change something and you think you know better (Am I right)
If you don't trust his opinion don't have lessons from him you are wasting your money and his time.

 

[thecraw]

I think you should have a look and read at instinctive golf.

http://www.instinctivegolf.com/

Firstly I am/was at a crossroads in relation to my golf, dont get me wrong I have had numerous lessons over the last god knows how many years but I have hovered between a 4 and 5 handicap since I was 16 years of age. I will be 34 later this month. Some may think this is consistant, I think its pretty crap that I have not managed to progress from this level.

When I was a junior I played golf with a baseball grip all my days and I felt comfortable with it and it was natural to me. I have very small hands, so this felt best to me. I was told/forced to change through county coaching and have stuck every since with an interlock grip despite never ever being comfortable with it.

Anyway to cut a long story boring at the begining of March while playing pretty poorly during a round I changed back to a baseball grip and have instantly felt better. Its a more natural way for me to play golf and it feels "correct" to me, holding the golf club in this way. Since then I have shot 72, 74 in my last two medals and I'm point 1 away from getting down to three for the first time ever. I played 11 holes the other night in -6, yes -6, something I have never ever done in my life all because I am playing golf in a way that is comfortable and natural too me.

Having read instictive golf, I guarentee that its not everyones cup of tea and alot of people with dismiss it as mumbojumbo nonsense, I know (in my mind) that I should have stuck with what is natural TO ME.

As I said earlier why is Vardon and Interlock perceived as being the correct way, why not a strong right handed grip or a weak left hand grip? Why again is baseball grip dismissed as not being correct, I may be wrong but I believe Ronan Rafferty was a baseball grip player.

While I will conceed that basic fundimentals are essential for every player, I am 100% convinced that everybody has a natural set up and way that they play the game which is comfortable to them.

So in answer to your question, no, I have not had a lesson, nor have I fallen out with a Pro, I have just gone back to playing golf which was the way I started to play and progressed as a player. I have started to progress again! Is this coincidence?

I know what I think. If your naturally comfortable with something it will obviously be easier for you!

 

[bobmac]

It seems obvious to me that since you've changed back to your old grip, you feel happier playing golf. That in turn breeds confidence which produces good scores which breeds confidence which produces good scores which breeds confidence which produces good scores which breeds confidence which produces good scores which breeds confidence which produces good scores which breeds confidence which produces good scores which breeds confidence which produces good scores
Happy days

 

[freddielong]

In golf as you know confidence is such an important thing and as this works for you go with it - you have been playing long enough to have a swing that works and as all you are doing is seperating the hands (no longer overlaping or interlocking) Enjoy

 

[rgs]

Over here we have numerous golfers who play with a reverse grip--right hand over left, this is as a result of most playing hurling in their youth, it works for them as its a more natural grip.

 

[roccokj]

You need to get a little bit of both in your swing. You most certainly need the simple basics in your swing and they should be well rehearsed in practice yet when you go out on the course you shouldn't even be thinking about the way you are swinging.