N/R Penalties

[Backache]

Main reason why I N/R is to maintain pace of play.
I would infinitely rather have the occasional slightly inaccurate handicap than have everyone taking for ever to return a meaningless card.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I find discussion on this sort of thing useful as it helps me calibrate and put into context any issues or problems I encounter when playing or that I become aware of.

So if I think something I see or hear about happening on the course or in the clubhouse and it concerns, bothers or irritates me - that irritation can be validated by the forum as being real and perhaps worth taking further - or the forum might just say 'chill - no big deal - forget it'

 

[GB72]

I have no issue with putting in an NR, though I do put the card in. Bad round, lost ball, no provisional etc. I am not going to head back to the tee and hold up the entire course just to put a complete card in (in fact I have never walked back to take another tee shot. My fault for not hitting a provisional). If you start putting pressure on to finish every hole on every round then you are going to slow up play.

As people have said, it is just a bit of fun. If someone is too cold, too wet, tired, injured, hungover, round is too slow, just don't feel like it or whatever, if they want to head in then that is fine with me. If any hobby becomes a chore then it is pointless. OK, of you are a 2 ball, then there are some considerations as to marking your partner's card but, to be honest, if my playing partner is clearly not enjoying it then I will volunteer that we both walk in so as he does not feel awkward or feel that he has to soldier on.

Golf is a fun hobby and a bit of exercise and I wish people would stop trying to make it more than that.

 

[rulefan]

Some people take things far to seriously we're merely a bunch of weekend (sometimes weekday) warriors playing for fun. What effect does it have on peoples lives that they need to be so passionate about someone that returns an NR or doesn't return a card. Golf is a hobby at the end of the day people get far to precious about things like this that ultimately doesn't even matter as there are far more important things to worry about.

So why bother with a handicap?
But as I said before, the penalty (whatever the committee decide) is aimed at serial defaulters who are purporting to maintain a realistic handicap.

 

[Lump]

I know of a club locally that doesn’t give 0.1’s back if you don’t enter your card....I know of at least 10 CAT1 guys at the club that are mid to high low handicappers with CAT1 handicaps.
Hopefully this will put an end to this going on

 

[Wolf]

So why bother with a handicap?
But as I said before, the penalty (whatever the committee decide) is aimed at serial defaulters who are purporting to maintain a realistic handicap.

Bit of a pointless response to say why bother with a handicap ?, I'll reiterate some people take this far to seriously and let it affect their lives and thinking. Its an NR its not a crime thats going to affect someones livelihood.

Golf is a game we play as hobby, if someone wants to NR I could not careless of they do it once or in every comp they play in. Likewise if someone is doing it to protect a handicap i frankly have more important things in my life to worry about than what someone else is playing off. I play golf to enjoy it and do the best i can, I simply don't worry about what other people do because it really is just a hobby. If someone wants to protect a handicap purely for ego of being Cat 1 or whatever then as far as im concerned they're only fooling themselves and it has no impact on my life or enjoyment.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

If it's just a bit of fun why bother to have a handicap at all.
snip

I would gladly drop my handicap completely and not play to win in any comps, as I only play for fun.

I am 'forced' to maintain my handicap to ensure I can play at certain courses on a green fee basis(club rules) and I wish to enter the clubs guest invitationals(as I say I am not interested in winning, just would like to enter them, as they are fun days). Other than that, I am now not interested in club comps or entering opens at other clubs.

That said I have never not submitted a card, but have N/Rd on individual holes

 

[rulefan]

Bit of a pointless response to say why bother with a handicap ?, I'll reiterate some people take this far to seriously and let it affect their lives and thinking. Its an NR its not a crime thats going to affect someones livelihood.

Golf is a game we play as hobby, if someone wants to NR I could not careless of they do it once or in every comp they play in. Likewise if someone is doing it to protect a handicap i frankly have more important things in my life to worry about than what someone else is playing off. I play golf to enjoy it and do the best i can, I simply don't worry about what other people do because it really is just a hobby. If someone wants to protect a handicap purely for ego of being Cat 1 or whatever then as far as im concerned they're only fooling themselves and it has no impact on my life or enjoyment.

The problem is that if many competition entrants took that view and didn't bother returning genuine scores, it could well affect the handicaps of other players.
But as I have already said, the rule is aimed at serial NRers who maybe NRing to manipulate their handicap. That is one reason for committees.

 

[Jigger]

Bit of a pointless response to say why bother with a handicap ?, I'll reiterate some people take this far to seriously and let it affect their lives and thinking. Its an NR its not a crime thats going to affect someones livelihood.

Golf is a game we play as hobby, if someone wants to NR I could not careless of they do it once or in every comp they play in. Likewise if someone is doing it to protect a handicap i frankly have more important things in my life to worry about than what someone else is playing off. I play golf to enjoy it and do the best i can, I simply don't worry about what other people do because it really is just a hobby. If someone wants to protect a handicap purely for ego of being Cat 1 or whatever then as far as im concerned they're only fooling themselves and it has no impact on my life or enjoyment.

Is it so hard to consider your fellow players who do want to take it seriously and hand your card in? Our club has had a massive issue with this for years as a bad round recorded could reflect a difficult course setup which in turn affects the standard scratch which could be the difference to affecting someone’s handicap they are trying to maintain.

Personally for me, I want to get my handicap down in a competitive environment but I’m not actually fussed about winning as it is, as you say, supposed to be fun but a ton of NR cards could influence that outcome slightly. A competition is by definition a competitive environment. We all want to have fun but if you don’t want to fully compete then don’t enter. I just don’t see why it is so hard to enter whatever is on a card into a system.

 

[Wolf]

Is it so hard to consider your fellow players who do want to take it seriously and hand your card in? Our club has had a massive issue with this for years as a bad round recorded could reflect a difficult course setup which in turn affects the standard scratch which could be the difference to affecting someone’s handicap they are trying to maintain.

Personally for me, I want to get my handicap down in a competitive environment but I’m not actually fussed about winning as it is, as you say, supposed to be fun but a ton of NR cards could influence that outcome slightly. A competition is by definition a competitive environment. We all want to have fun but if you don’t want to fully compete then don’t enter. I just don’t see why it is so hard to enter whatever is on a card into a system.

I never said it was hard to consider anyone,. When i play I do take competition seriously but not to the detriment that it becomes more than what it is, which ultimately is a hobby. I don't wear my handicap as a badge of honour even when I was low Cat1 it was still a game. If someone NR and it affected the standard scratch I still wouldn't let it worry me, people get to worked up about handicap and let outside influences annoy them unnecessarily.

Who says those that NR'd enter the competition with the intention of being uncompetitive. Thats always the negative comment i hear from people moaning about others that do NR, it's actually quite petty imo. But with the introduction of the WHS hopefully nobody will have anymore issues or concerns.

 

[rosecott]

The CONGU manual says it all. Extracts from the "Responsibilities of the Player":

The UHS is based on the premise that a player will endeavour to make the best score he can at each hole in every qualifying round he plays and will report all such rounds for handicap purposes.

The player must:

8.8 Ensure that all competition cards in Qualifying Competitions, whether or not complete, are returned to the organising committee, and make such computer entries as may be required – see Decisions, Dec.1(m) and Dec.1.

Note: It is expected that every player who enters a Qualifying Competition intends to complete the round.

 

[Jigger]

I never said it was hard to consider anyone,. When i play I do take competition seriously but not to the detriment that it becomes more than what it is, which ultimately is a hobby. I don't wear my handicap as a badge of honour even when I was low Cat1 it was still a game. If someone NR and it affected the standard scratch I still wouldn't let it worry me, people get to worked up about handicap and let outside influences annoy them unnecessarily.

Who says those that NR'd enter the competition with the intention of being uncompetitive. Thats always the negative comment i hear from people moaning about others that do NR, it's actually quite petty imo. But with the introduction of the WHS hopefully nobody will have anymore issues or concerns.

That be the difference. Clubs should make the people aware that of the reasons why people need to do their best to hand their cards in as per the comment above this one. From my experience, too much emphasis is put on the sweeps rather than, as you say, enjoying the game on the provisory that you’ll hand your card in on whatever state.

Mentioning sweeps seems a bit random I’m sure but it is a catalyst to people at the other end of this being seen as bandits so it influences both ways.

 

[Jigger]

The CONGU manual says it all. Extracts from the "Responsibilities of the Player":

The UHS is based on the premise that a player will endeavour to make the best score he can at each hole in every qualifying round he plays and will report all such rounds for handicap purposes.

The player must:

8.8 Ensure that all competition cards in Qualifying Competitions, whether or not complete, are returned to the organising committee, and make such computer entries as may be required – see Decisions, Dec.1(m) and Dec.1.

Note: It is expected that every player who enters a Qualifying Competition intends to complete the round.

This says it all for me but as per my last post, clubs never communicate this.

 

[rosecott]

This says it all for me but as per my last post, clubs never communicate this.

Some do. The CONGU manual extract on "Responsibilities of the Player" has been posted on our notice board. But then, we all know that people never look at the notice board.

 

[rulefan]

This says it all for me but as per my last post, clubs never communicate this.

We remind all players at the beginning of the 'playing' season via an email newsletter and again during the season if there has been a spate of them. We haven't had to do the latter for some years now.

 

[Jigger]

Some do. The CONGU manual extract on "Responsibilities of the Player" has been posted on our notice board. But then, we all know that people never look at the notice board.

Yeah I agree but is that the best solution? It’s possibly the working role I have in life that makes me more aware of the importance of comms but I’ve rarely been impressed with any comms in the golf industry as a whole, not just clubs.

 

[Jigger]

We remind all players at the beginning of the 'playing' season via an email newsletter and again during the season if there has been a spate of them. We haven't had to do the latter for some years now.

And I guess the key is making it stand out when required. Appreciate it’s a fine line between pushing adherence and annoying members.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I have no issue with putting in an NR, though I do put the card in. Bad round, lost ball, no provisional etc. I am not going to head back to the tee and hold up the entire course just to put a complete card in (in fact I have never walked back to take another tee shot. My fault for not hitting a provisional). If you start putting pressure on to finish every hole on every round then you are going to slow up play.

As people have said, it is just a bit of fun. If someone is too cold, too wet, tired, injured, hungover, round is too slow, just don't feel like it or whatever, if they want to head in then that is fine with me. If any hobby becomes a chore then it is pointless. OK, of you are a 2 ball, then there are some considerations as to marking your partner's card but, to be honest, if my playing partner is clearly not enjoying it then I will volunteer that we both walk in so as he does not feel awkward or feel that he has to soldier on.

Golf is a fun hobby and a bit of exercise and I wish people would stop trying to make it more than that.

Exactly, as above in bold.
I find it somewhat unfair, to allow extremely large handicaps (,and thus those players are going to be slower), and then chase them up for being slow.
In the same vein, if someone is playing (very badly) to the point of being embarrassed ,being the cause of holding up a competitive field behind him, yet he feels he cannot NR without being punished, it is not what an ordinary club competition should be doing. This game is in the final analysis about being fun.
I would not want to be the cause of such a hold up, because some rule insists I can't stop scoring embarrassingly.

 

[rulefan]

Exactly, as above in bold.
I find it somewhat unfair, to allow extremely large handicaps (,and thus those players are going to be slower), and then chase them up for being slow.
In the same vein, if someone is playing (very badly) to the point of being embarrassed ,being the cause of holding up a competitive field behind him, yet he feels he cannot NR without being punished, it is not what an ordinary club competition should be doing. This game is in the final analysis about being fun.
I would not want to be the cause of such a hold up, because some rule insists I can't stop scoring embarrassingly.

Although in a medal you would be DQd, the WHS allows you to pick up and enter net double bogey and still carry on.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Although in a medal you would be DQd, the WHS allows you to pick up and enter net double bogey and still carry on.

Is this not what happens under the current system?