modern equipment and golf

[hovis]

played beau destert today and noticed that they are adding considerable distance to the course. the pro said with modern equipment the course is getting too easy. now is this true?
if you look at rugby players 20 years ago they where fat and slow. look at rugby players now and there are gladiator like athletes. is technology giving a huge advantage to golfers and the distance one can smash a ball or have we understood the physics of a golf swing better to give a golfer the tools he needs to rip one with better technique.

cant we get bubba watson to rip a old ball and driver and see the results.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I have posted this before but on the Mizuno forum they have a section where the tour van guys post. They gave Chris Wood a persimmon driver, a T-Zoid and the latest Mizzy driver (MP650) and put him on trackman. He hit the persimmon about 240, the T-Zoid about 250 and the MP650 about 290. All with a modern ball so I guess the results for the old gear would be even lower if they used a period ball.

 

[Junior]

Crikey, I didnt think it was easy from the back tee's when we played it on the GM day 2 years ago. I think they key is to have a number of teeing options for the varying standards of golfer. BD must host some decent events so stick the pro's and plus handicappers of the very back (new) tee's and leave the competition tee's for us normal golfers.

 

[sev112]

I have posted this before but on the Mizuno forum they have a section where the tour van guys post. They gave Chris Wood a persimmon driver, a T-Zoid and the latest Mizzy driver (MP650) and put him on trackman. He hit the persimmon about 240, the T-Zoid about 250 and the MP650 about 290. All with a modern ball so I guess the results for the old gear would be even lower if they used a period ball.

Not certain this is very scientific - if you had Greg Norman hitting the Tzoid and Sam Snead hitting the Persimmon, each with the balls they played in that period you might get closer results. Their swings and swing tempos will be different.

Snead used to hit a massive ball, as did many of his contemporaries - i've read biographies of snead, sarazen, palmer, hogan, nicklaus, and the length those guys hit appeats to not be signifincatly different from what is being reported these days.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This comes down to the old adage of making a course harder for the pros or setting it up to play tricky but fair for the handicap golfer who surely make up the majoirtiy of players. Why continue to trick up courses and make them longer when better bunkering, trickier rough around the greens and can still make a course enticing for all levels of golfer

 

[GTO NEMESIS]

Have a watch of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLV6rM1vtrA&feature=related

 

[RGDave]

Have a watch of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLV6rM1vtrA&feature=related

Cool.

 

[RGDave]

This comes down to the old adage of making a course harder for the pros or setting it up to play tricky but fair for the handicap golfer who surely make up the majoirtiy of players. Why continue to trick up courses and make them longer when better bunkering, trickier rough around the greens and can still make a course enticing for all levels of golfer

Couldn't agree more.

The "madness" that is taking over is getting absolutely stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Why RG? Because the knee jerk reaction to make a hole harder is to move the tee back and not re-position the hazards. My experience (even as a short hitter) is that the 100 year old bunkers are now in MY firing line and the big boys just fly them. Who's suffering more? The average player. Not timgolfy.....

Take our 14th. They moved the tee back 40 yards. Now, me and the rest of the 200-240 brigade can't even get full distance out of our drives, because the landing area 180-210 (?) is uphill. If you can carry the ball 215, you'll gain not just 20-30 yards over the regular players, but a bonus in head-to-head golf (matchplay) of seeing your opponent effectively 70-80 yards behind you.

If it's too easy.....narrow the fairway or replace/add more bunkers.

 

[Region3]

Have a watch of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLV6rM1vtrA&feature=related

They had hybrids in 1880!!

 

[Scadge]

Great debate - all I know is that you should see the Spanish chestnut tree and plaque on 11th hole at Cork Golf Club where Seve hit a 323 metre uphill drive in a 1983 exhibition match.

I played a mullered a drive downwind off a more forward tee and didn't get within 60 yards - I just couldn't believe how far he hit it, at the course it seems even longer than it sounds just by the numbers. I hate to think it would be even further with today's bats.

 

[duncan mackie]

This comes down to the old adage of making a course harder for the pros or setting it up to play tricky but fair for the handicap golfer who surely make up the majoirtiy of players. Why continue to trick up courses and make them longer when better bunkering, trickier rough around the greens and can still make a course enticing for all levels of golfer

don't really agree with this

the key is to have appropriate tees for both - otherwise you end up with either unplayable holes (because the fairway hazards are duplicated to cover both driving distances from the same tees) or the hazards are taken out of play for one, or other, of the capability groups - and you then end up with a mismatch on approach shots too.

the other alternative is the ball - and I actually do think we will see a reduced SG ball within 10 years.

 

[Foxholer]

This comes down to the old adage of making a course harder for the pros or setting it up to play tricky but fair for the handicap golfer who surely make up the majoirtiy of players. Why continue to trick up courses and make them longer when better bunkering, trickier rough around the greens and can still make a course enticing for all levels of golfer

Because it costs a huge amount less!

Try moving Hell Bunker and its mates 50yards or more as opposed to creating a new tee 50yds back. Same effect, design changes not required; course can be played as-is during any work.

 

[GTO NEMESIS]

I hate to think it would be even further with today's bats.

Have a look at the video I posted.
According to those tests (and others on Youtube) the new clubs don't add distance.
The claimed distance gains in most new ranges is due to a change of loft for the same 'number' club.

 

[CMAC]

Nicklaus said years ago it's the golf ball that enabled him to get 20yds back as he matured, he's an advocator of reducing the ball properties further.
We all know how poor the distances are from poor range balls, and they are probably better than 'proper' balls of 20 years ago!

 

[MadAdey]

To be honest has hittingthball any further really helped the normal mid handicap golfer? All it has enabled is the ability to hit it further into trouble for a lot of people. Has the average handicap changed much in the last 30 years? Without doubt it has enabled the tour pros to shoot lower scores, but they hit the ball straight so the extra distance from the tee is benefiting them and with their irons being able to get closer by using shorter clubs. for anyone wondering if these modern drivers and balls have made much difference then try going round just using a 3 wood, then you will probably be hitting about the same distance from the tee as you would with the old persimmon drivers and balls. Then see if it would make much difference to the scores you actually shoot.

 

[GTO NEMESIS]

I think a huge factor is distance today Vs 10-20 years ago is fitness.
A lot of the modern day big hitters are very well toned or stacked.

There is much more sports science around now to focus the modern days pro's fitness/technique.

If I had to wager a bet on a single thing I would go with fitness (as an average) being higher.

 

[patricks148]

I've not been playing that long so have never hit persimmon woods or hickery shafted irons so a can't comment on those, but i have hit some old Dunlop 65 balls.

When they cleared a lot of whinn bushes at Tain they found loads of old golf balls and there were a few of these dumped on the practice ground. When i was waiting for a lesson last year started hitting a few balls that were lying in a big pile. Anyway asked the pro what those funny looking yellow brown thinks were?

When he told me i was so suprised. They went much further than the modern balls and had a better flight into the wind as well.

If they were still legal and you could buy them i would use those.

 

[shivas irons]

Interesting debate,If any of you guys have seen “Shells Wonderfull World Of Golf” on sky you regulary saw the players hitting persimmon drivers over 300 yds with the old balls of course.If you can play you can play,if you can't you can't so what's the point in altering courses that are played on by lesser players, why make it so much harder for them? Very much a knee jerk reaction I think.