inc0gnito
Assistant Pro
Last edited by a moderator:
MGS...again.
- Thread starter User20204
- Start date
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Contradicts a lot of what Vice say on their website
https://www.vicegolf.com/uk/vice-production
https://www.vicegolf.com/uk/vice-golflabs-testing
https://www.vicegolf.com/uk/vice-production
https://www.vicegolf.com/uk/vice-golflabs-testing
Dibby
Assistant Pro
Curious to see what they release.
I only watched 10 mins of the video, couldn't really handle any more, given the way they were sensationalising as if it was a life or death matter, but not really revealing anything, just to hype up traffic for when they drip release further information.
One thing that did jump out is how they were attacking the manufacturers who don't have their own factories, and it almost seemed like they were shilling for Titleist. In other industries, it is very common to not own your own factories even with big names (like Apple), they just have inspectors on their payroll embedded in the factories, don't see why this would be any different for golf ball manufacturers.
I only watched 10 mins of the video, couldn't really handle any more, given the way they were sensationalising as if it was a life or death matter, but not really revealing anything, just to hype up traffic for when they drip release further information.
One thing that did jump out is how they were attacking the manufacturers who don't have their own factories, and it almost seemed like they were shilling for Titleist. In other industries, it is very common to not own your own factories even with big names (like Apple), they just have inspectors on their payroll embedded in the factories, don't see why this would be any different for golf ball manufacturers.
robinthehood
Hacker
My wife's company makes stuff for its own brands but also others , it's quite surprising how many others different brands are actually the same thing made in the same factory etc.
MendieGK
Tour Winner
This happens in all forms of golf. ‘Smaller’ brands using open moulds for iron heads, stamping them with their brand and claiming they designed it etc.
Personally I don’t see the issue at all.
Personally I don’t see the issue at all.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Problems only arise when the quality drops.
With regards to club manufacturers, yip they just buy blanks from forging houses. Or similarly Sun Mountain made loads of bags for other manufacturers.
User20204
Well-known member
Agreed, the issue comes when a company states they make and produce all their own product etc, not saying that's what Vice have done but suspect they haven't been fully forthcoming in regards their product, bearing in mind golfers are the most gullible people in the world.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Not sure why you say Vice aren't forthcoming https://www.vicegolf.com/uk/vice-production The implication from reading about their team in Germany and Taiwan would suggest they have their own production facility and that they do quality control their balls.
User20204
Well-known member
As MGS said, balls in the far east are being produced and companies are buying them and branding them, I'm not so sure Vice is a big enough company to own all the manufacturing and production from start to finish, MGS said only 3 companies do and Vice weren't one of them.
Dibby
Assistant Pro
I have a feeling they are muddying the waters with their choices of words.
For sure Acushnet(Titleist), Bridgestone and Callaway have ball factories in the US.
TaylorMade has a factory where they manufacture the cover but purchase the inner 4/5 layers form a contractor.
The other companies may not own the full supply chain, but it doesn't mean they just buy generic balls and rebrand them. Some will do this, but some will also design their own ball, but then contract someone to produce that design. As mentioned in my other post, this is common in other industries, such as with Apple and their electronics, and you also see platform sharing in the automotive industry. It's not a problem in those industries, I'm not sure why it would be with golf.
I'm not also sure why ownership matters, you could own your full facility and still intend to rip off your customers by making dodgy balls, just as much as a contractor may try to rip you off. Equally a contractor may produce top quality because they know you can go to someone else if they don't deliver.
They may have found bad quality balls and great quality balls, but I don't think ownership of the supply chain is the reason for this.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
I think the ownership is in relation to quality control and manufacturing tolerances etc being tighter and in full control of the process instead of relying on another company making a component to your required standard.
Dibby
Assistant Pro
That's what they are inferring, but in reality why would it be so?
Many other industries use contractors for far more critical things, like aeroplanes, space rockets, medical equipment etc.. with no issues to the quality or tolerances, because they still specify the items being produced and inspect the contractors work. Sure it's a little bit easier if you own the factory, but it's not the big deal MGS make it out to be.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Well if the findings are as bad as being made out then I'd suggest it is.
Having full control of your product is a big bonus.
User20204
Well-known member
I think you may be getting confused with what they have said, they have said, only 3 companies have complete control over their ball production and Callaway isn't one of them, nor is Taylormade, I think what they are saying is, how can you be 100% sure of your QC if you don't control all parts of production.
If you out source a cover or a core or a layer you don't have complete control over the production or QC, so I don't think they are muddying the waters, they are being very specific IMO.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
I’d like to have seen a few forumers given the balls to test.
“Yeah this one definitely felt better off the putterâ€
“But I couldn’t definitely spin this one betterâ€
😂
“Yeah this one definitely felt better off the putterâ€
“But I couldn’t definitely spin this one betterâ€
😂
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Or the classic "clicky" off the face!
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I think the bigger issue is when you have brands A, B and C passing the same ball off as their own - when it isn't - and charging different amounts for it.
The quality aspect comes into it if cores are not centred or covers not uniform in thickness - both of those have to affect ball flight and/or "puttability"
If you have 100% control of the production process then you are far more likely to be able to eliminate these variances.
Another part of the problem was with lower priced " budget" balls.
One box, all supposed to be the same ball produced by brand X, had 8 different types of ball ranging from 2 piece rocks through to what they thought was a TP5.
That's just fraud
The quality aspect comes into it if cores are not centred or covers not uniform in thickness - both of those have to affect ball flight and/or "puttability"
If you have 100% control of the production process then you are far more likely to be able to eliminate these variances.
Another part of the problem was with lower priced " budget" balls.
One box, all supposed to be the same ball produced by brand X, had 8 different types of ball ranging from 2 piece rocks through to what they thought was a TP5.
That's just fraud
User20204
Well-known member
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
They aren’t benefiting him one bit.
It’s just good marketing from Titleist.
He’d be much better off playing a cheaper ball & spending the money on lessons.
FACT ðŸ‘ðŸ»
