Jason.H
Well-known member
If the goalmouth got a bit to boggy could we just move it across a bit? Is there a ruling for this?
Matchplay Shots Given
- Thread starter SwingsitlikeHogan
- Start date
salfordlad
Well-known member
I think you would be wasting your time asking your Golf Manager's opinion about what the Competitions Handbook is saying and besides that book has no capacity to override the rules. The only reliable answer will come from St Andrews or Far Hills.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Well…I had a match lunchtime today and before going out I had a chat on this matter with the Club Manager (not the Golf Manager but as it happens a very good low SF player).
I outlined what I have laid out in this thread and his view was that he could certainly see where I was coming from - especially given what I pointed out was written in the Competitoon Handbook. However he said he’d defer further to the Golf Manager as it was he who, in consultation with the Competitions Committee, had drafted the Competition Handbook…indeed the Club Manager said that he himself was interested to find out what was meant in the handbook. They will speak tomorrow, as will I with them.
And so to the 1st tee for my match. Without any prompting or discussion whatsoever my opponent asked me what I wanted to do about the shot I was due to give him on the 17th…today it was playing 55yds. I said I’d just leave it as is. But the point is…he asked.
As an aside…we were all square standing on the 17th tee. We walked off the green both having had 3s. I lost the hole ?. Not a good time to go 1 down having been 4 down after 7. But there you go.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I thought you were going to have the match done and dusted before the 17th. ?
Colin L
Tour Winner
During periods of course work and hole closures, the format and configuration of play will be set out by the competitions committee. The layout and stroke index application must be agreed by both sides prior to play.
I can't quite makes sense of this. If the format and configuration of play are set out by the competitions committee, what is there for the players to agree to or disagree with?
I can't quite makes sense of this. If the format and configuration of play are set out by the competitions committee, what is there for the players to agree to or disagree with?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Well that was the intent but in the first 7 holes he drained a load of long putts and I was average and so getting back from 4 down after 7 to take it to the 17th I thought not too bad.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed, I‘m going to club later this morning to have a chat with Golf Manager about it…after all he wrote it…plus also, and more immediately relevant to me, to get him to confirm whether we must pick up our match from where we left off even though consensus of opinion in clubhouse was that we could replay it - and surely that would be better. I actually want the match round to continue and think that that is what should happen….apart from anything else by starting on the 3rd I won’t give a shot until the 9th…and it’s not likely to get that far. I’ll take my chances off scratch. But I don’t think I should have the choice of 3rd hole start or replay.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Regarding your match, what you did was to stop play as permitted by Rule 5.7a, second bullet point. You did not/ could not abandon the match and must resume it at an agreed time. I doubt if you would be a happy golfer if you had to stop play after the 14th when you were 4 up and then start all over again in a new match another day.
The words stop and resume in Rule 5 are carefully chosen.
The words stop and resume in Rule 5 are carefully chosen.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Just catching up after my Xmas break
Took a lot of discussion, but can I assume that when giving shots in match play you should use the stroke indices (unless the Committee state otherwise)? That is a relief, I never knew that....
Imagine players could just make it up as they go along, it would be a nightmare. Especially in winter. Many matches would require 30 minute meetings of negotiations beforehand, such as:
Took a lot of discussion, but can I assume that when giving shots in match play you should use the stroke indices (unless the Committee state otherwise)? That is a relief, I never knew that....
Imagine players could just make it up as they go along, it would be a nightmare. Especially in winter. Many matches would require 30 minute meetings of negotiations beforehand, such as:
- Hole x is playing shorter today, so I'd rather give you a shot somewhere else
- I'm giving you 5 shots, but you are a big hitter so I don't want to give you them on holes x, y and z because they are longer
- We are on 18 temporary greens today, with bucket holes, so I'd rather give you 12 shots rather than 18 if that's OK?
Neilds
Assistant Pro
Just looking back at this thread and think the club may have a bigger problem than just the shortened hole. Can SILH confirm what the SI of the 17th is? I know it is between 1 and 5 as his opponent got a shot but if it is one of the lowest SI, I thought this should be avoided especially during match play
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I belive it's only 1-4 that shouldn't be at the start or finish of a 9..
Many clubs, however, allocate SIs on the difficulty of the hole and not much else.
This can lead to low SIs being at the ends rather than in the middle.
There is a perception amongst, in my opinion, the majority of ordinary golfers that SI 1 is the hardest hole on the course
Neilds
Assistant Pro
Agree, we had SI 2 on the 17th until we were re-rated this year and it is now SI 4, which is a pity as I find the extra shot useful in that hole!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
It is SI 5. Hence the issue. I have no actual evidence of players in matches switching the shot from the 17th to another hole…only suspicions that has been happening. The full hole will not likely be back in play for another couple of months.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I will be pushing for this if there is any thinking that we replay.
I very deliberately wanted to play our long 460yd par 4 2nd hole as it is SI 2, even though it was almost dark…some would say it was dark…we completed the hole so I would beg to differ. I knew the risk I was taking giving a shot on a hole on which a 5 was likely best I would achieve, but reckoned on balance that I’d want it out of the way for a restart, and that in difficult light I had a decent chance of not losing the hole. I got a 5, my opponent got a 6 so objective achieved. Starting on the 3rd I don’t give a shot until 9 (and it would be curious if we got that far).
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
You’ll note that I agree with your sentiment…Just catching up after my Xmas break
Took a lot of discussion, but can I assume that when giving shots in match play you should use the stroke indices (unless the Committee state otherwise)? That is a relief, I never knew that....
Imagine players could just make it up as they go along, it would be a nightmare. Especially in winter. Many matches would require 30 minute meetings of negotiations beforehand, such as:
I played a match earlier in the winter, and was giving shots on Stroke Index 5. This is a 500 yard par 5. However, due to wet conditions, the temp green had been moved forward and the hole became a 220 yard drivable par 4. I still gave shots. Sure, it is to my disadvantage, but that is life. That is winter golf. You just get on with it, instead of trying to subjectively work out how all the stroke indices should be adjusted for that particular round.
- Hole x is playing shorter today, so I'd rather give you a shot somewhere else
- I'm giving you 5 shots, but you are a big hitter so I don't want to give you them on holes x, y and z because they are longer
- We are on 18 temporary greens today, with bucket holes, so I'd rather give you 12 shots rather than 18 if that's OK?
And so I turned down the offer my opponent made to me on the 1st - of course golf being as it is I went on to lose the 17th against the shot, having got from 4down to AS after 16. So be it.
Colin L
Tour Winner
This really belongs to your other thread about the unfinished match. I mention that in case anyone else gets as confused as I have been.
There should be no question but that you resume your match at the 3rd.
There should be no question but that you resume your match at the 3rd.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
This really belongs to your other thread about the unfinished match. I mention that in case anyone else gets as confused as I have been.
There should be no question but that you resume your match at the 3rd.
I must admit I was somewhat baffled by the leap from losing the 17th to restarting on the 3rd!!!!! Off to find the other post now!!!!
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
@SILH Not wishing to be controversial. However notice you are a Mentor for “The Academy” from another Rules thread.
Do you support what you have suggested in your first post and subsequent posts?
Do you support what you have suggested in your first post and subsequent posts?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
No. As I have posted.
And it’s not my suggestion…I am just conveying what I had heard spoken of in the clubhouse. Then as it happens on the 1st tee my opponent offered to switch the shot - I politely declined. I didn’t ask why he was asking; I didn’t say why I declined. Just said that the shot is on the 17th and so be it.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I have now spoken with my club‘s Golf Manager. The intent is for there to be flexibility around the order holes are played and when holes are put of play what happens to the strokes.
He agreed that the wording of what I have quoted from the handbook is unclear and perhaps ambiguous. Plus he admitted that the Terms of Competition for the comp in question should have been updated to cover the scenario with the 17th hole and shot given. As a result of what I have raised he will propose at the next Competitions Committee that the second sentence I have quoted starting ‘The layout…’ should be removed from the handbook, as revised and updated Terms of Competition will define what should happen, rather than leave it open to players to come to some agreement.
Many thanks to all for their input.
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