Massacre at French Magazine Office - in Centre of Paris

[Foxholer]

What if they're not all terrorists? What if there are kids there?

It's really tough, what I really dislike (apart from the obvious) is the way these incidents are high jacked for political means. The far right jump onto it as it fits their agenda, and government agencies use them as a mechanism to seek further funding and more intrusive powers. I'm all for analysing what we can learn but responding to terrorism by giving up our liberties seems a paradox to me.

That said, British citizens who go abroad to fight or train can't be allowed back without due process, and some can't be allowed back at all.

Absolutely!

The likes of (drone) strikes against camps in countries like Syria, where diplomatic relations have already been withdrawn, can only intensify anti-West feelings - and is arguably an act of terrorism in itself!

The same is not the case in Iraq however, where Western forces have been invited in to counter IS. There must be some reason/strategy why such action isn't taken, but I wouldn't be against it.

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you know what that means , this is all down to the west and human rights and all that , we allowed hate preachers to speak and spread their bile and even gave them money through benefits and police protected them as they had a right to speak , this soft policy has lead to these hate groups , too late now as they are up and running . This is not Islam , they are muslims yes but thats it

Yes I do. And I did say 'In their twisted view'

 

[SocketRocket]

It would be better if it had been spelt correctly!

A rather unnecessary comment!

 

[Fish]

What if they're not all terrorists? What if there are kids there?

It's really tough, what I really dislike (apart from the obvious) is the way these incidents are high jacked for political means. The far right jump onto it as it fits their agenda, and government agencies use them as a mechanism to seek further funding and more intrusive powers. I'm all for analysing what we can learn but responding to terrorism by giving up our liberties seems a paradox to me.

That said, British citizens who go abroad to fight or train can't be allowed back without due process, and some can't be allowed back at all.

If there are kids in a known terrorist training camp then their parents are terrorists IMO and they will become terrorists themselves as they will be growing up brainwashed to their ideals! This is why they have always placed their HQ's and even missile launching areas in and around schools and in dense populated areas, I even saw it first hand in the early troubles in Northern Ireland with sand baggers, these terrorists tap into our morals knowing we won't strike at them as its unethical for us to do so, but for me, this cancer now has to be stopped or at least slowed massively down if we can and the only way to do that is to strike in the heart of their training camps and HQ's wherever they are!

You won't do it with dialogue, you won't find their money and starve them of funds, there will always be countries selling them arms, so do we just sit back and let them grow even more, hitting soft targets around the world, or do we strike back at the heart of them and accept that any innocent loss of life is unfortunate and simply a casualty of war!

I think we've done everything now we could within the realms of decency, but its not getting us anywhere, and if anything, terrorism is growing at a huge rate of knots so things have to change on an unprecedented scale and stop pussy-footing about.

Any British citizen who leaves the country to fight or train in the name of terrorism should not be allowed back into our country, why imprison them at my expense when they will only meet and learn more and eventually come out with a bigger grudge, the law needs changing and anyone who takes up arms or has been trained to take up arm should be excluded from our shores.

I don't care how unpopular my post is, its how I feel, its the tree-hugging liberals of this country which will cause even more fatalities offering up human rights and the like, if we are having a war on terror, then lets have it, full on!

 

[Old Skier]

An attitude that may have to change sooner rather than later...

You may be against it if your chucked in nick without any proof but on the say so of someone else.

I would be careful in what you wish for.

 

[Old Skier]

I'm not sure how to read or take this, are you saying that we couldn't have done any more, and monitoring them was sufficient in your opinion, whilst we all just wait for them to strike taking out innocent lives!

You can read it how you like and I hav'nt come out openly on either side of the fence.

I spent enough time cleaning up after these kind of people. Just remember that some on here may say that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

The only point I was trying to make that chucking people in the nick without the necessary evidence might be the wrong way to go in the long game.

 

[User20205]

If there are kids in a known terrorist training camp then their parents are terrorists IMO and they will become terrorists themselves as they will be growing up brainwashed to their ideals! This is why they have always placed their HQ's and even missile launching areas in and around schools and in dense populated areas, I even saw it first hand in the early troubles in Northern Ireland with sand baggers, these terrorists tap into our morals knowing we won't strike at them as its unethical for us to do so, but for me, this cancer now has to be stopped or at least slowed massively down if we can and the only way to do that is to strike in the heart of their training camps and HQ's wherever they are!

You won't do it with dialogue, you won't find their money and starve them of funds, there will always be countries selling them arms, so do we just sit back and let them grow even more, hitting soft targets around the world, or do we strike back at the heart of them and accept that any innocent loss of life is unfortunate and simply a casualty of war!

I think we've done everything now we could within the realms of decency, but its not getting us anywhere, and if anything, terrorism is growing at a huge rate of knots so things have to change on an unprecedented scale and stop pussy-footing about.

Any British citizen who leaves the country to fight or train in the name of terrorism should not be allowed back into our country, why imprison them at my expense when they will only meet and learn more and eventually come out with a bigger grudge, the law needs changing and anyone who takes up arms or has been trained to take up arm should be excluded from our shores.

I don't care how unpopular my post is, its how I feel, its the tree-hugging liberals of this country which will cause even more fatalities offering up human rights and the like, if we are having a war on terror, then lets have it, full on!

Advocating the murder of children doesn't make you unpopular it makes you psychotic.

I'd rather live under sharia law than have that done in my name.

 

[palindromicbob]

I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and earn relatively comfortable income.

Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you. Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

We can not stand as a country talking about freedom and democracy without practicing it.

This attack shows a major change in the way the terrorists are working. Smaller group, softer targets and a hit and run style. Very similar to that of the IRA in the 80's.

 

[Old Skier]

I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and earn relatively comfortable income.


Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you. Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

The UK has done got heavy and hard before with the IRA. It did them no favours.

Have half a like, you spoilt it right at the end

 

[User20205]

I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and earn relatively comfortable income.


Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you. Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

The UK has done got heavy and hard before with the IRA. It did them no favours.

It also doesn't work, the best recruitment call for terror organisations is heavy handed first world response. Satisfying the braying call to go and bomb someone is counter productive.

 

[bluewolf]

I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and earn relatively comfortable income.


Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you. Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

The UK has done got heavy and hard before with the IRA. It did them no favours.

I'm white and relatively comfortable and I'm not advocating a crackdown. I believe that the best way to beat people who attack our Liberal values is to carry on living our lives with those Liberal values. I'm not a "tree hugger" as some would like to categorise those who lean to the left, but attempting to beat terrorism by becoming more like the terrorists seems a bit strange to me.

 

[palindromicbob]

Have half a like, you spoilt it right at the end

How? The way that the UK government treated IRA suspects and also those living in the areas associated with these nationalists poured fuel to on the fire. It was heavy handed and is exactly the type of thing some on here want to see happen those who might be considered Islamists. It is an example from the recent past that we need to learn from.


OK it was desperate times but the measures overstepped the boundaries occasionally.

Just for the record I am a unionist so what I'm saying isn't coming from an IRA sympathiser point of view.

 

[Old Skier]

How? The way that the UK government treated IRA suspects.

You never mentioned suspects in your original post you just mentioned the IRA who acted in exactly the same way as those responsible for the Paris slaughters by targeting the innocent.

 

[palindromicbob]

You never mentioned suspects in your original post you just mentioned the IRA who acted in exactly the same way as those responsible for the Paris slaughters by targeting the innocent.

Sorry meant it in a way that they blanket labled anyone thought to be involved.

What is really acary is the way this attack happened. This is a major change in tact. These guys planned to get away. Before the perpetrators were happy to hole up and die. Thankfully they were inept and dropped that Id card or thing may have been different.

 

[Old Skier]

Sorry meant it in a way that they blanket labled anyone thought to be involved.

Human nature I'm afraid and it doesn't just happen when it comes to terrorists. We all tend to do a bit of human profiling.

 

[MegaSteve]

I would be careful in what you wish for.

I am not wishing for anything... What I fear, is an up scaling of what we have witnessed this week [in France] on a more Europe wide basis... Which could lead sooner rather than later to 'actions' which could prove 'difficult' to accept....

 

[Old Skier]

What I fear, is an up scaling of what we have witnessed this week [in France]

With the media loving every minute of it and giving wall to wall coverage it wouldn't suprise me.

 

[Foxholer]

A rather unnecessary comment!

See post 35.

 

[MegaSteve]

With the media loving every minute of it and giving wall to wall coverage it wouldn't suprise me.

Irrespective of what the media says/does these 'folk' are hell bent on ridding the world of everything that doesn't accord with their beliefs...

 

[SocketRocket]

See post 35.

AND!

Making a reply that only points out a spelling mistake adds nothing to the discussion; other than silly point scoring.