Marking your ball off the green

6inchcup

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as we are talking about marking balls,i had a set to last year in a comp at prestatyn,my opponent had chipped to about 6 inch from the cup for 4 and his ball was just at the back of the cup and a little to one side,i was just off the green for 2 and going to play a 7 iron bump and run,i left the pin in and before i could say anything he had put a marker down and moved his ball,i told him i wanted his ball to be replaced as it was a good back stop for my shot if i slightly over hit ,he caused a fuss saying i was cheating etc etc and it was up to him if he moved his ball or not !!!!!!!
 

Colin L

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Well, you weren't cheating, just getting it wrong. It was indeed up to him to mark and lift his ball if he wanted to - as he obviously would if he saw the potential advantage it would give you. Have a look at Rule 22-1.
 

rosecott

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as we are talking about marking balls,i had a set to last year in a comp at prestatyn,my opponent had chipped to about 6 inch from the cup for 4 and his ball was just at the back of the cup and a little to one side,i was just off the green for 2 and going to play a 7 iron bump and run,i left the pin in and before i could say anything he had put a marker down and moved his ball,i told him i wanted his ball to be replaced as it was a good back stop for my shot if i slightly over hit ,he caused a fuss saying i was cheating etc etc and it was up to him if he moved his ball or not !!!!!!!
Q.In stroke play, B's ball lies just off the putting green. A's ball lies near the hole in a position to serve as a backstop for B's ball. B requests A not to lift his ball. Is such a request proper?
A.No. If A and B agree not to lift a ball that might assist B, both players are disqualified under Rule 22-1.
 

6inchcup

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Q.In stroke play, B's ball lies just off the putting green. A's ball lies near the hole in a position to serve as a backstop for B's ball. B requests A not to lift his ball. Is such a request proper?
A.No. If A and B agree not to lift a ball that might assist B, both players are disqualified under Rule 22-1.
but who has the call to mark the ball and who decides if leaving the ball there gives an advantage in the first place?
 

rosecott

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but who has the call to mark the ball and who decides if leaving the ball there gives an advantage in the first place?
It's entirely up to the player whose ball lies near the the hole if he wants to mark it. If, however, he comes to an agreement with the other player not to mark it, then both players are disqualified.
 

Region3

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In a 4BBB match recently I had chipped onto the green and one of our opponents was next to play from the opposite side of the green. My ball from his viewpoint was maybe 6" to the side of the hole and a couple of feet past.

I would have liked to have marked it but the opponent played his shot straight away before I had a chance to.

I know no penalty should have been incurred as I was too late marking and I never said I wanted to mark it.

What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?
 

6inchcup

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i always thought you had to ask your playing partners if you could mark your ball they same as asking if it was ok to finish the hole for a tap in out of turn? and if you hit you opponents ball it was just the rub of the green.
 

rosecott

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In a 4BBB match recently I had chipped onto the green and one of our opponents was next to play from the opposite side of the green. My ball from his viewpoint was maybe 6" to the side of the hole and a couple of feet past.

I would have liked to have marked it but the opponent played his shot straight away before I had a chance to.

I know no penalty should have been incurred as I was too late marking and I never said I wanted to mark it.

What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?
Tough one, but I'm not sure if the following is correct as it is in Rule 3 for Strokeplay but cannot find the same situation for matchplay. In Strokeplay you would have to speak out quickly:

Q.In stroke play, A's ball lies near the hole in a position to assist B, whose ball lies off the putting green. A states his intention to lift his ball under Rule 22-1. B mistakenly believes that A does not have the right to lift his ball and plays before A has an opportunity to lift his ball. What is the ruling?
A.B is disqualified under Rule 3-4 as he intentionally denied A's right to lift his ball. It is irrelevant that B did so in ignorance of the Rules.
 

duncan mackie

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I would have liked to have marked it but the opponent played his shot straight away before I had a chance to.

I know no penalty should have been incurred as I was too late marking and I never said I wanted to mark it.

What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?
in match play it would be loss of hole - see 2/3

in stroke play it would be DQ!
 

rosecott

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In a 4BBB match recently I had chipped onto the green and one of our opponents was next to play from the opposite side of the green. My ball from his viewpoint was maybe 6" to the side of the hole and a couple of feet past.

I would have liked to have marked it but the opponent played his shot straight away before I had a chance to.

I know no penalty should have been incurred as I was too late marking and I never said I wanted to mark it.

What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?
in match play it would be loss of hole - see 2/3

in stroke play it would be DQ!
Duncan I looked at Decision 2/3 but it wasn't the situation described by Region3.

Q.In a match, A requests B to lift B's ball that is on A's line of play. B refuses to do so. What is the ruling?
A.In equity (Rule 1-4), B loses the hole for failing to comply with A's request to lift his ball under Rule 22-2.
 
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AmandaJR

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This is fast becoming my favourite section of the Forum - fascinating stuff. Not sure what that says about me though :whistle:
 

6inchcup

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so to clarify,YOU have to mark your ball on the green if both ball are on the green ?so why then if player A chips from 50 yds and leaves his ball 2 inch from the cup,player B chips from 30 yds and hits player A's ball and goes in it still counts and player A's ball is replaced at what distance are you expected to mark your ball from the green area if another player has the chance to hit your ball,i am still not sure that me chipping off the green is the same as me putting.
 

Colin L

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Rosecott, I assume Duncan was replying to the "what if" question:
What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?


Decision 2/3 is saying to me that if the player went ahead and played his shot knowing that his opponent had asked him to wait for him to mark his ball he would have been effectively doing the same thing as breaching 3-4 Refusal to comply with a Rule in stroke play. This being match play, with no applicable rule, the penalty of loss of hole is in equity.

I hope that's what it was saying to Duncan as well.

 

rosecott

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In a 4BBB match recently I had chipped onto the green and one of our opponents was next to play from the opposite side of the green. My ball from his viewpoint was maybe 6" to the side of the hole and a couple of feet past.

I would have liked to have marked it but the opponent played his shot straight away before I had a chance to.

I know no penalty should have been incurred as I was too late marking and I never said I wanted to mark it.

What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?
in match play it would be loss of hole - see 2/3

in stroke play it would be DQ!
Rosecott, I assume Duncan was replying to the "what if" question:
What I'm curious about is if I had said "please wait for me to mark my ball before you play your shot" and he had gone ahead and played anyway, would any rule have been invoked?


Decision 2/3 is saying to me that if the player went ahead and played his shot knowing that his opponent had asked him to wait for him to mark his ball he would have been effectively doing the same thing as breaching 3-4 Refusal to comply with a Rule in stroke play. This being match play, with no applicable rule, the penalty of loss of hole is in equity.

I hope that's what it was saying to Duncan as well.

Colin I am sure that equity will apply in the absence of a Decision in Rule 2 which corresponds to Decision 3-4/1. Decision 2/3, however, refers to a specific situation which is not the one described by Region3.
 

Colin L

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I see what you mean but I am reading Region3's situation as the converse of the D2/3 situation and reckoning that we reach the same ruling for that reason . The Decision deals with the refusal of a player to lift his ball whereas Region3 is positing a player who, by ignoring a request to wait, refuses to allow his opponent to mark and lift. So I am seeing these as two aspects of the same situation - one player refusing to comply with Rule 22-2 and the other with 22-1.

It will be interesting to hear what Duncan has to say.
 

Foxholer

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so to clarify,YOU have to mark your ball on the green if both ball are on the green ?so why then if player A chips from 50 yds and leaves his ball 2 inch from the cup,player B chips from 30 yds and hits player A's ball and goes in it still counts and player A's ball is replaced at what distance are you expected to mark your ball from the green area if another player has the chance to hit your ball,i am still not sure that me chipping off the green is the same as me putting.
You don't have to mark your ball on the green. But if opponent/fellow competitor requests that you do, then you must comply.

In Matchplay and you believe that your ball may assist your opponent, then you are entitled to mark it - and your opponent cannot request that you don't. If he plays before you have stated your desire to mark it, then tough. If he subsequently says not to mark it, or plays before you get the chance to mark it, then he loses the hole.

In Strokeplay, if the pair of you explicitly agree to leave it, knowing that the position of your ball could provide a benefit, then you have colluded and are both disqualified. All other events, good or bad, are 'rub of the green'
 
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daymond

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The only occasion I can think of when I would not mark my ball on the green, acting as a 'back stop',is in pairs match play, my partner being off the green of course.
From this post I must remember to tell an opponent asap that I will mark my ball.
 

Whereditgo

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The only occasion I can think of when I would not mark my ball on the green, acting as a 'back stop',is in pairs match play, my partner being off the green of course.
From this post I must remember to tell an opponent asap that I will mark my ball.
But could I (as one of your opponents) realise the possible advantage and insist that you do mark it?
 
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