Making a Good, Full, Hip Turn in the Backswing

[One Planer]

As per the title. What, exactly, constitutes a good, full hip turn in the backswing?

How much is too much? Or how little is too little?


Below is a selection of images of popular tour players at the top of their backswing:

And one guy stood the wrong way around :smirk:

All the players above have varying degrees of hip turn in the backswing, from a little to a Bubba-lot.

Is there such a thing as too much or little hip turn in the backswing?

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[CMAC]

Gareth, no offence mate but your head is getting full of spaghetti over the swing.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Read "The Plane Truth" by Jim Hardy. A one plane swing, where arms & shoulders swing on the same plane, works by the upper body coiling & uncoiling against resistance from the hips, which don't rotate much. In a two plane swing (arms swinging much steeper than the shoulders à la Bubba) the power is generated by the hips turning & arms swinging. More power is available from the latter but, with more moving parts, timing is much more important.

 

[One Planer]

Gareth, no offence mate but your head is getting full of spaghetti over the swing.

For once, this is absolutely nothing to do with me or my swing :thup:

This is a topic I got talking about the other night at the course with a group of friends.

What is considered correct?

Does it matter?

Is there even a right and wrong?

Simple really :thup:

 

[Region3]

List those players in order of amount of hip turn, then list them in order of how far they hit the ball.

Pretty much the same.

Whether there's anything to that or not I don't know.

 

[One Planer]

List those players in order of amount of hip turn, then list them in order of how far they hit the ball.

Pretty much the same.

Whether there's anything to that or not I don't know.

Bigger turn, bigger distance?

 

[Maninblack4612]

Bigger turn, bigger distance?

Bigger miss.

 

[One Planer]

Bigger miss.

How so?

 

[Foxholer]

I notice you don't have the World #1 (Rory) in any of those pics. He doesn't have a lot of hip turn on the backswing, but he does have an extremely fast one on the downswing. Combined with the pretty full shoulder turn and considerable leg action, that's what gives Rory his speed.

Jim McLean actually promoted a concept, from The Golf Machine, that he called the X-Factor, which is the difference between the rotation of the hips and that of the shoulder - the greater the difference, the more power. It's not particularly accurate/reliable imo though!

The swing can be modeled as a series of levers with torque generators at each of Torso, Shoulders, Arms and Wrists. The varying amounts of torque applied at each of these points (and their timing) governs the speed of the clubhead. The torque applied by arms is actually the least - the uncocking of the wrist applies 50% more.It's the Shoulders and Torso that apply the most torque.

Heres the reference http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publ... forward dynamics model of the golf swing.pdf

 

[Maninblack4612]

How so?

Usually more moving parts. Bubba's a good example. How Rory hits it so straight is a mystery.

 

[One Planer]

Usually more moving parts. Bubba's a good example. How Rory hits it so straight is a mystery.

But us it really more moving parts?

Everything that would be moving anyway is just turning a little further?

 

[Foxholer]

But us it really more moving parts?

Everything that would be moving anyway is just turning a little further?

Indeed! Probably better to say 'more possibility for the timing to go wrong'! Especially if those 'further turns' are happening a lot quicker!

 

[Maninblack4612]

Indeed! Probably better to say 'more possibility for the timing to go wrong'! Especially if those 'further turns' are happening a lot quicker!

You're right, better explanation.

 

[Region3]

I notice you don't have the World #1 (Rory) in any of those pics. He doesn't have a lot of hip turn on the backswing, but he does have an extremely fast one on the downswing. Combined with the pretty full shoulder turn and considerable leg action, that's what gives Rory his speed.

Jim McLean actually promoted a concept, from The Golf Machine, that he called the X-Factor, which is the difference between the rotation of the hips and that of the shoulder - the greater the difference, the more power. It's not particularly accurate/reliable imo though!

The swing can be modeled as a series of levers with torque generators at each of Torso, Shoulders, Arms and Wrists. The varying amounts of torque applied at each of these points (and their timing) governs the speed of the clubhead. The torque applied by arms is actually the least - the uncocking of the wrist applies 50% more.It's the Shoulders and Torso that apply the most torque.

Heres the reference http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publ... forward dynamics model of the golf swing.pdf

Who is the second pic of? I thought it was Rory.

 

[Craigg]

I, probably wrongly, have to make quite a full hip turn. If I don't I find myself coming over the top on the downswing. Making a big hip turn gives me room to get things moving down on the inside. Not text book I know but I seem to get away with it.

 

[the_coach]

just a question of physicality - size & strength plus flexibility, & anatomy. there's no real difference to having a larger turn or less of one in regards to a so called 'one plane swing' or 'two plane swing'

Tour players in general have more hip turn than folks can really 'see' in a 2d vid. most have more the 40º in the backswing (Rory Mc included) & the Tour players average hip angle just prior to impact is around 53º open, average hip angle at impact for club golfers around 31º open. most club golfers hips are too square into & at impact, there hip clearance happening after the balls been struck so they often times believe they really are clearing the hips, they are but often it's after the main event has happened.

you have to either be very naturally hyper-flexible or train many times a week to really be able to rotate the upper spine to 90º or past with very little hip turn - lumber spinal region connected to the pelvic girdle they tend to rotate together a ways more so you need a fair range of mobility lumbar to thoracic spine region if the hips are being restricted.

plus you need to have a good lordosis of the left & right laterals & rib cage to have good lateral side bend in the left side in the backswing & right side in the downswing, it's side bend that more keeps the spine angle over the ball so the swing motion stays in posture back to the top then back down through impact.

as a general rule club golfers would be a good ways better off having a hip turn in the backswing rather than over-restricting it.

 

[Foxholer]

Who is the second pic of? I thought it was Rory.

Doh! It is indeed. And I should have mentioned the phrase 'relative to other Pros' too.

as a general rule club golfers would be a good ways better off having a hip turn in the backswing rather than over-restricting it.

Agreed. If only I could!

 

[sawtooth]

My thought is that as long as I make a full 90 degree turn of the shoulders I dont really worry how much the hips turn. I mean they have to turn with the shoulders by their natural amount anyhow, best not to think about it IMO.

 

[SocketRocket]

Around 40 deg is about right.

 

[bobmac]

Go down the beach, pick up a pebble and throw it in the sea.

About that much.