Lost ball

[Leereed]

pp hits ball in trees says on tee lost ball, so plays 2nd ball puts it close to flag.we find first ball and tell him you have to play original ball.hes says no as he said it was lost.am I correct in saying the original ball of found is back in play?.thanks

 

[Imurg]

If he didn't call the 2nd ball a provisional, so effectively putting another ball in play, then the first is lost and the 2nd ball is in play for 3 shots...
If he called the 2nd ball a provisional then he has to play the first ball if its found within 5 minutes..

 

[bobmac]

He can say what he likes but if he DOESN'T say "this is a provisional", or words that inlude 'provisional' then the second ball is in play, whether he finds his first ball or not.

 

[rulefan]

He can say what he likes but if he DOESN'T say "this is a provisional", or words that inlude 'provisional'

Or doesn't make it clear he is playing under rule 27-2a.

 

[Three]

If he called the 2nd ball a provisional then he has to play the first ball if its found within 5 minutes..

Unless he hits the provisional from a point equal to or closer to the hole than where the original is likely to be.
As soon as he does that, it's in play.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Unless he hits the provisional from a point equal to or closer to the hole than where the original is likely to be.
As soon as he does that, it's in play.

Before the original is found, to be correct.

And to be properly anal, question for the rules gurus. If this was matchplay and the opponent hit his "second ball" out of turn to make it the ball in play, is it possible to negate that shot as it's out of turn, and still find the first ball?

 

[Spuddy]

Before the original is found, to be correct.

And to be properly anal, question for the rules gurus. If this was matchplay and the opponent hit his "second ball" out of turn to make it the ball in play, is it possible to negate that shot as it's out of turn, and still find the first ball?

you can get him to play again under 10-3 and 10-1a. If he subsequently played a third ball and it wasn't a provisional then it would be the ball in play.

 

[Colin L]

And to be properly anal, question for the rules gurus. If this was matchplay and the opponent hit his "second ball" out of turn to make it the ball in play, is it possible to negate that shot as it's out of turn, and still find the first ball?

Can I check what you mean?

You have the honour. You put your drive into the woods and immediately put another ball into play instead of waiting till your opponent has played; your opponent elects to require you to cancel that stroke . Are you asking whether you can go and find your original ball and play it instead of replaying the one under stroke and distance?

If so, then I would say you cannot. Under Rule 10c , if your opponent so chooses, you are required to cancel the stroke and play a ball from the same place.

 

[Tommo21]

It's amazing how we complicate things. If he said lost ball and didn't say provisional then the second ball is the ball in play. Simple.

 

[Beezerk]

Just to confirm, you cannot actually claim a ball to be lost can you?

 

[duncan mackie]

Just to confirm, you cannot actually claim a ball to be lost can you?

I am afraid the question isn't that straight forward without context.

You are on the tee - you hit a ball and then claim/ state/ sing contralto "that's lost so I'm playing another" - all fine. It's lost and the other one counts whatever.

You are on the tee, you hit a ball then thinking it may be lost you state that you are playing a provisional ball (or proceeding under 27-2...) which flies straight down the middle. You then state " the first ones lost" - no it isn't. It may become lost if one of the various parameters set out occurs but it isn't lost because you say so.

 

[Beezerk]

I am afraid the question isn't that straight forward without context.

You are on the tee - you hit a ball and then claim/ state/ sing contralto "that's lost so I'm playing another" - all fine. It's lost and the other one counts whatever.

You are on the tee, you hit a ball then thinking it may be lost you state that you are playing a provisional ball (or proceeding under 27-2...) which flies straight down the middle. You then state " the first ones lost" - no it isn't. It may become lost if one of the various parameters set out occurs but it isn't lost because you say so.

Yes thanks for that, you confirmed what I thought and explained it a lot better than I could.

 

[Leereed]

Thanks for the answers everybody.

 

[Region3]

Can I check what you mean?

You have the honour. You put your drive into the woods and immediately put another ball into play instead of waiting till your opponent has played; your opponent elects to require you to cancel that stroke . Are you asking whether you can go and find your original ball and play it instead of replaying the one under stroke and distance?

If so, then I would say you cannot. Under Rule 10c , if your opponent so chooses, you are required to cancel the stroke and play a ball from the same place.

I think what the question means is.....

I put my tee shot into thick rough and play a provisional which turns out to be my Sunday best. It goes 50yds past where my first is likely to be and 20yds past your tee shot.

I don't want to find my first ball so hit my provisional out of turn while you're looking for my first ball.

Obviously you can recall my 4th shot as I played out of turn, but can you find my first and make me play it if I've already hit my provisional again even though it has been recalled.

 

[pogle]

27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball

Q. At a par-3 hole, a player hits his tee shot into dense woods. He then hits a provisional ball which comes to rest near the hole. In view of the position of the provisional ball, the player does not wish to find his original ball. He does not search for it and walks directly towards his provisional ball to continue play with it. His opponent (or fellow-competitor) believes it would be beneficial to him if the original ball were found. May the opponent (or fellow-competitor) search for the player's ball?

A. Yes. In equity (Rule 1-4) he may search for five minutes provided that in the meantime the player does not play a stroke with the provisional ball, it being nearer the hole than the place where the original ball is likely to be. The player is entitled to play such a stroke. If he does, the original ball is then lost under Rule 27-2b and further search for it would serve no purpose. In match play, if the player so proceeds and his provisional ball is closer to the hole than his opponent's ball, his opponent may recall the stroke (Rule 10-1c). However, recalling the stroke would not change the status of the original ball, which was lost when the provisional ball was played out of turn. See also Decision 27-2c/2.

The original ball is lost in such circumstances.

 

[backwoodsman]

I think what the question means is.....

I put my tee shot into thick rough and play a provisional which turns out to be my Sunday best. It goes 50yds past where my first is likely to be and 20yds past your tee shot.

I don't want to find my first ball so hit my provisional out of turn while you're looking for my first ball.

Obviously you can recall my 4th shot as I played out of turn, but can you find my first and make me play it if I've already hit my provisional again even though it has been recalled.

As Colin says, the answer is no. Although you played out of turn, you took an action which makes the original a lost ball. Your shot can be recalled, but if it is, it doesnt cancel the fact your original is now lost. Decision 27-2b/1 (quoted by pogle) is the same thing.

The only advantage to your oppo in recalling your shot is for him/her to hope you don't hit it as well, or better, second time round.
Ps: edited from earlier version.