Lofts on irons

[Voyager EMH]

Only a few in favour then. I don't want or feel the need for it to happen. I think Crow #13 summed it up in his first two words, "loft creep". My club pro said to me last year that he thought it would happen as the last stage of what has been going on for some time (creeping in). As for influencing manufacturers, we could ask them it get on and do it which might speed it up, but begging them not to do it will have zero affect if it starts happening. I feel we (mostly amateurs) are more at their mercy than being a driving force of demand.

 

[Imurg]

Interesting idea, although it appears to be a general ‘no’ from the posts so far, albeit there is little mention that wedges tend to have the lofts stamped on them, so a bit of a mixed message.

Stamping PW or 10 iron etc on wedges wouldn't necessarily work.
Mizuno wedges go from 45° to 62° - 18 different lofts.
" Pass me the 17 iron please Bones".

 

[jim8flog]

As others have said Cleveland had both number and loft, Easy enough thing to do.

 

[Orikoru]

Only a few in favour then. I don't want or feel the need for it to happen. I think Crow #13 summed it up in his first two words, "loft creep". My club pro said to me last year that he thought it would happen as the last stage of what has been going on for some time (creeping in). As for influencing manufacturers, we could ask them it get on and do it which might speed it up, but begging them not to do it will have zero affect if it starts happening. I feel we (mostly amateurs) are more at their mercy than being a driving force of demand.

I'm curious as to when loft creep will actually stop - because obviously if it continues exponentially we'll all end up with a 8 and a 9 iron and seven wedges or something. I already don't think it can go much further.

 

[Voyager EMH]

So there it is...evidence of it creeping in. Doesn't look that awful to me. I'm less scared than I was. I won't rail against it if it becomes more widespread. There will be some years of consumer choice until it takes over.

 

[woofers]

I'm curious as to when loft creep will actually stop - because obviously if it continues exponentially we'll all end up with a 8 and a 9 iron and seven wedges or something. I already don't think it can go much further.

“In The Bag
Ping G410 SFT 10.5° (at 11.5), Tensei Orange shaft • Cobra F9 5 wood 17.5°D & 7 wood 21.5°D • Ping G25 hybrids 23° & 27°
Callaway Steelhead XR 7-PW • Cleveland RTX 2.0 46° • RTX-3 50° • RTX 2.0 56° • Callaway Sure Out 2 60°”

Wonder how those “seven wedges or something“ would be stamped?
Notice that “in your bag“, you give the loft of every club, except the irons, and just the loft for the hybrids - just an observation, not a criticism or dig.... funny how we see things.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I'm curious as to when loft creep will actually stop - because obviously if it continues exponentially we'll all end up with a 8 and a 9 iron and seven wedges or something. I already don't think it can go much further.

I think its gone about as far as it can now. The reason, which a lot of people don't understand, is that it results from manufacturers being able to improve the launch characteristics of irons. If you make, for example, a seven iron which launches easier than a traditional one it will go far too high so the manufacturer jacks the loft, which gives a more manageable flight & more distance. Perhaps the loft given to each club should relate to the height at which the ball is launched.

Being a 70+ year old with decreasing swing speed I've reached the limit. I discovered that my 4 & 5 irons carried around the same distance because I couldn't get the clubhead speed necessary to launch the 4 iron properly. Rather than retire the 4 iron I got the lofts on the 4 to 7 irons increased so that the gaps between them are around 3° instead of the original 4° or 5°. This works better although, at some time in the future, I'm sure I'll need to invest in a 4 iron hybrid.

 

[Orikoru]

“In The Bag
Ping G410 SFT 10.5° (at 11.5), Tensei Orange shaft • Cobra F9 5 wood 17.5°D & 7 wood 21.5°D • Ping G25 hybrids 23° & 27°
Callaway Steelhead XR 7-PW • Cleveland RTX 2.0 46° • RTX-3 50° • RTX 2.0 56° • Callaway Sure Out 2 60°”

Wonder how those “seven wedges or something“ would be stamped?
Notice that “in your bag“, you give the loft of every club, except the irons, and just the loft for the hybrids - just an observation, not a criticism or dig.... funny how we see things.

In simple terms I've just written them by what's written on the club - or in the case of the woods it's because I have them adjusted to those lofts. If I wrote the wedges by their counterpart names I'd have two pitching wedges so that doesn't really work anyway. And to call my 56 a sand wedge would be erroneous because I actually only use my 60 Sure Out to get out of bunkers.

 

[sweaty sock]

This thread is a collosal win for the marketing community.

Lofts in golf sets barely change. Only really good players can hit clubs with less than about 27 degrees. Which used to be a 4 iron.

They would then probably have a 3 iron or 7 wood, go into 5 woods at 21 degrees and down to a 3 wood at 16, and Driver normally 10-12.

Amazingly thats what mosy people still play, but the 27 degrees is a 6 iron and the iron set they bought stops at 45 degrees rather than 56 so we have to fit 2 more wedges in. They then fill the bottom with woods (hybrids are 5 woods for anyone old enough to remember why there called 'woods') same as always.

Only difference is olden sets would be sold as a set of woods 1-3-5, then a set of irons 3-sw, and a putter. So 3 cheques.

Now we're all hitting exactly the same lofts, but we pay seperately for each wood, seperately for each hybrid, the full set price for 5 irons, then pay sepeately for each speciality wedge. 9 cheques.

Salesman 1, Golfers 0.

Except for crow, obviously...

 

[woofers]

This thread is a collosal win for the marketing community.

Aren‘t most golf products a colossal win for the marketing community?
Every couple of days I get an email from AM or Clubhouse regarding the latest clubs, balls, shoes, clothes, trollies....apparently all ‘must haves’ to improve my performance.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Loft creep has been going on since they started putting numbers on the bottom of clubs.

Back in the 1930s a set of irons was generally 1 iron to 8 iron and the 8 iron was around 50 to 54 degrees.
Lofts gradually got stronger over the next 70 years but have changed dramatically over the last 15 or 20 years.

For me the ideal lofts are a 20 degree 2 iron then 4 degree steps between clubs which brings us to a 52 degree PW, before stepping perfectly to a 56 degree SW!
These were the lofts in use around the 1960s, give or take a few years depending on manufacturer.

I think a standard figure is helpful as it gives you an idea of what to expect when someone says I hit an 8 iron for instance.
Hearing a player say "I hit a 7 iron" means nothing to me now as without knowing what loft (and shaft length) it was I can't relate that to the result and tell if it was a good shot or not.

As I play clubs from across the decades I've taken to measuring the lofts on the set (using a cheap digital inclinometer) and writing them down on a piece of card that I take out for the round with those clubs.
I know roughly where my "ideal" lofts go so just work it back to that, for example a 7 iron with 38 degrees of loft will go a bit further than my ideal 40 degree 7 iron.

You are right about the 1930s 8-iron, I've got one. From my original clubs, only the mashie-niblick remains. My dad bought them in a second hand shop, unwound the leather grips, hacksawed them down to size for a 9-year-old, rewound the grips. Brilliant. (I wipe away tear) Another special one is the Slazenger 2-wood circa 1970.

 

[sweaty sock]

Aren‘t most golf products a colossal win for the marketing community?
Every couple of days I get an email from AM or Clubhouse regarding the latest clubs, balls, shoes, clothes, trollies....apparently all ‘must haves’ to improve my performance.

I was more pointing to how much we all seem to think things are changing and approaching some limit, when the truth is nothing at all has changed. 13 clubs, lofts evenly spaced from 10 degrees to 58 degrees...

 

[Robster59]

I was more pointing to how much we all seem to think things are changing and approaching some limit, when the truth is nothing at all has changed. 13 clubs, lofts evenly spaced from 10 degrees to 58 degrees...

But they're not evenly spaced in a modern iron set. The PW is stronger than before but the SW is about the same so if you buy a set including a SW then there is some distance between the PW & SW (In the Callaway XR the gap is from 44° (PW) to 54° (SW). When I got my new set I went from 5 to PW as the 4 iron was 20.5° and that's 5 wood territory (for me). To make the gaps up at the top end of the bag, you have to invest in something like a 50° to 52° wedge.

 

[USER1999]

Same number of clubs though, and most iron sets start at 5i now. You just have to buy a gap wedge to fit between the pw and sw, and a lot of sets now have matching gap wedges to suit. It's all nonsense, and could fo with someone hitting reset really.

 

[sweaty sock]

But they're not evenly spaced in a modern iron set. The PW is stronger than before but the SW is about the same so if you buy a set including a SW then there is some distance between the PW & SW (In the Callaway XR the gap is from 44° (PW) to 54° (SW). When I got my new set I went from 5 to PW as the 4 iron was 20.5° and that's 5 wood territory (for me). To make the gaps up at the top end of the bag, you have to invest in something like a 50° to 52° wedge.

So once youve got your gap wedge your back in the same place as a set from the 1930s...

 

[sweaty sock]

Also happy to admit I fall hook line and sinker for all this and have a 2 iron with 18 degrees on it, because I have an enormous, insatiable and totally unjustified golf ego. So who am I even telling...

 

[Crow]

You are right about the 1930s 8-iron, I've got one. From my original clubs, only the mashie-niblick remains. My dad bought them in a second hand shop, unwound the leather grips, hacksawed them down to size for a 9-year-old, rewound the grips. Brilliant. (I wipe away tear) Another special one is the Slazenger 2-wood circa 1970.

2 woods are great clubs to use with modern, low spin balls, here's my 1970s Slazenger 2 wood.

 

[Imurg]

Not sure even Taylormade could get away with a range called Powerthrust

 

[Crow]

Not sure even Taylormade could get away with a range called Powerthrust

It was a Ben Hogan model originally, these are made from left over parts after the Slazenger/Hogan relationship ended.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I refuse to buy a set of irons that start at 5i. I've always had 3 & 4 irons in my sets.

#playa

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