Loft progression

[Maninblack4612]

Crow posted this interesting chart in another thread. Question is, is this good or bad? There is a school of thought that says that it's an attempt by the manufacturers to con the public i.e. "our 5 iron goes further than yours". I disagree. The fact is that modern irons are so good at getting the ball airborne that, if the lofts weren't reduced, the ball would launch far too high. I don't have any figures but would imagine that the launch angle of a modern club is similar to an old one of the same number. The difference will be the distance that the ball goes. This is good, not bad, & helps us cope with ever lengthening courses & reduces the difference in distance between us & the pros.

I recently changed to a set where the 6 iron was, for example, the same loft & length as my old 5 iron. It also went 10 to 15 yards farther due to the thinner face. The advantage is that I can hit the 4 iron, really a 3 iron, farther & better than my old club. OK, I had to add a gap wedge (see my earlier thread where I said that nobody needed 4 wedges!) but the advantage of being able to hit long irons into the wind makes it, for me, well worthwhile.

I'm 73 & need all the help I can get. The game is more fun using these clubs & I wouldn't want to handicap myself any further by using older equipment.

Conning the customers? Only if you don't know the facts.

 

[jim8flog]

Whilst modern clubs get the ball up in the air much quicker and may hit the ball further I do not see that as a good reason to change the number on the bottom of the club.

Even in that chart there are discrepancies e.g my set in 1992 had a PW of 51 degrees (they marked the loft on the PW)

What is noticeable from that chart is that a SW has remained very consistent around the 56 mark.

 

[Crow]

This is good, not bad, & helps us cope with ever lengthening courses & reduces the difference in distance between us & the pros.

No, it's bad as it creates the need for ever lengthening courses.
I'd say 90% or more of courses are now too short for modern clubs, even after many have been lengthened.

Back in the day Arnie would hit a good drive 275 to 300, the average club player maybe 200 to 225.
Now Rory tonks one 350 to 375, the average club player 250 to 275.
Similar distances between us and the pros then and now.

Anyway, I'm bored with banging the drum so that's my last post on the subject. (For a while )

 

[robinthehood]

Crow posted this interesting chart in another thread. Question is, is this good or bad? There is a school of thought that says that it's an attempt by the manufacturers to con the public i.e. "our 5 iron goes further than yours". I disagree. The fact is that modern irons are so good at getting the ball airborne that, if the lofts weren't reduced, the ball would launch far too high. I don't have any figures but would imagine that the launch angle of a modern club is similar to an old one of the same number. The difference will be the distance that the ball goes. This is good, not bad, & helps us cope with ever lengthening courses & reduces the difference in distance between us & the pros.

I recently changed to a set where the 6 iron was, for example, the same loft & length as my old 5 iron. It also went 10 to 15 yards farther due to the thinner face. The advantage is that I can hit the 4 iron, really a 3 iron, farther & better than my old club. OK, I had to add a gap wedge (see my earlier thread where I said that nobody needed 4 wedges!) but the advantage of being able to hit long irons into the wind makes it, for me, well worthwhile.

I'm 73 & need all the help I can get. The game is more fun using these clubs & I wouldn't want to handicap myself any further by using older equipment.

Conning the customers? Only if you don't know the facts.

Sorry but the only truth is a modern 7 iron is really a 5 iron.

 

[Trapdraw]

No, it's bad as it creates the need for ever lengthening courses.
I'd say 90% or more of courses are now too short for modern clubs, even after many have been lengthened.

Back in the day Arnie would hit a good drive 275 to 300, the average club player maybe 200 to 225.
Now Rory tonks one 350 to 375, the average club player 250 to 275.
Similar distances between us and the pros then and now.

Anyway, I'm bored with banging the drum so that's my last post on the subject. (For a while )

I don’t think courses are to short for the amateur player, they are to short for tour pros but that is only about 1% of players who play the game.
The average club golfer doesn’t it 250 to 275, that distance is on the upper end for club golfers.
Rory’s average driving distance in 2019 is 313.5 yards.

 

[MendieGK]

Less loft = increased dispersion.

Yes these clubs launch more but they still spin considerably less than they should.

Brands are also making clubs longer now too: the new callaway epic is 27 degrees at 7 iron and 37.625” long

Most 7 irons are 37” long

Distance sells

 

[User20204]

Rory isn't tonking it 375, granted under certain conditions he may have hit the odd one that distance but not on a regular basis he's not, in fact I'm not even sure he averaged over 300 at Carnoustie last year.

 

[Trapdraw]

Less loft = increased dispersion.

Yes these clubs launch more but they still spin considerably less than they should.

Brands are also making clubs longer now too: the new callaway epic is 27 degrees at 7 iron and 37.625” long

Most 7 irons are 37” long

Distance sells

End of the day people buy what they like, blades, choppers clubs, whatever, if it makes people enjoy golf more using high launching shovels that’s a good thing.

 

[Papas1982]

Ed

End of the day people buy what they like, blades, choppers clubs, whatever, if it makes people enjoy golf more using high launching shovels that’s a good thing.

Kinda getting mixed messages here 😂😂

 

[williamalex1]

Crow posted this interesting chart in another thread. Question is, is this good or bad? There is a school of thought that says that it's an attempt by the manufacturers to con the public i.e. "our 5 iron goes further than yours". I disagree. The fact is that modern irons are so good at getting the ball airborne that, if the lofts weren't reduced, the ball would launch far too high. I don't have any figures but would imagine that the launch angle of a modern club is similar to an old one of the same number. The difference will be the distance that the ball goes. This is good, not bad, & helps us cope with ever lengthening courses & reduces the difference in distance between us & the pros.

I recently changed to a set where the 6 iron was, for example, the same loft & length as my old 5 iron. It also went 10 to 15 yards farther due to the thinner face. The advantage is that I can hit the 4 iron, really a 3 iron, farther & better than my old club. OK, I had to add a gap wedge (see my earlier thread where I said that nobody needed 4 wedges!) but the advantage of being able to hit long irons into the wind makes it, for me, well worthwhile.

I'm 73 & need all the help I can get. The game is more fun using these clubs & I wouldn't want to handicap myself any further by using older equipment.

Conning the customers? Only if you don't know the facts.

Easy for you to say Bill old pal, you've always been a fairly good golfer , still ALMOST single figures at age 73 .
The OP said he was a 17 h/c 30 years ago and now a 60 yr old, probably around a 24 h/c now . Slight tweaks in iron lofts wont really make much of a difference to him. But a modern driver will, compared to the old wooden headed ones probably a minimum of 30-40 yards further for him.
Wish i was 60 again

 

[Maninblack4612]

I don’t think courses are to short for the amateur player, they are to short for tour pros but that is only about 1% of players who play the game.
The average club golfer doesn’t it 250 to 275, that distance is on the upper end for club golfers.
Rory’s average driving distance in 2019 is 313.5 yards.

100% agree. I play on a course of 6200 yards. I'm not short but there are par 4s i cant reach. More modern courses are worse. We need the new gear to keep up

 

[craigstardis1976]

I just do not see the need for the more modern lofts. It just leaves you with having to use 4 or 5 wedges and 2 or 3 clubs with very close lofts. (God, I am starting sound like Peter Alliss, next, I will be ranting on about women being out of the kitchen or some such) but I think there is something to be said for sensible loft spacing. My 4,PW,SW and LW lofts are 24,28,32,.36,40,44,48,53,58 and each club I hit a clearly different distance and I had them set by PING as their HQ is close by so I know they are on the money. Similarly, I use a 14.5 Degree Driver, a 19 degree 5 wood and a 23 degree 7 Wood. with modern shafts and grips, why would you need anything different?

 

[Trapdraw]

100% agree. I play on a course of 6200 yards. I'm not short but there are par 4s i cant reach. More modern courses are worse. We need the new gear to keep up

I think the equipment is fine at the minute for amateur golfers. Tour pro’s, now that’s a different argument altogether!
I don’t get the issue people have with stronger lofted irons, some people need a little help. Who cares if someone’s 7 iron is 27 degrees or 30 degrees or 25 degrees.
Golfs about enjoyment, whatever way you get it, if it’s buying new gear, practicing loads, playing different courses, etc, who cares as long as they enjoy it.

 

[patricks148]

a load of bollocks as other have said not that long ago you got 3-SW now its 5 PW and cost more then you end up witha massive gap between the PW43 annd your SW (still 56) so you now have to buy a couple of gap wedges... as Jonny Rotten said " ever get the felling you've been cheated"

 

[Maninblack4612]

I just do not see the need for the more modern lofts. It just leaves you with having to use 4 or 5 wedges and 2 or 3 clubs with very close lofts. (God, I am starting sound like Peter Alliss, next, I will be ranting on about women being out of the kitchen or some such) but I think there is something to be said for sensible loft spacing. My 4,PW,SW and LW lofts are 24,28,32,.36,40,44,48,53,58 and each club I hit a clearly different distance and I had them set by PING as their HQ is close by so I know they are on the money. Similarly, I use a 14.5 Degree Driver, a 19 degree 5 wood and a 23 degree 7 Wood. with modern shafts and grips, why would you need anything different?

I find it's at the bottom end where the difference is. If I can hit what is effectively a 2 iron I want it in my bag no matter what number it has on it. I think there's a case for having a set with a traditional pitching wedge, CA modern 4 iron & the other lofts & lengths evenly spread, with slightly bigger gaps.

 

[Maninblack4612]

a load of bollocks as other have said not that long ago you got 3-SW now its 5 PW and cost more then you end up witha massive gap between the PW43 annd your SW (still 56) so you now have to buy a couple of gap wedges... as Jonny Rotten said " ever get the felling you've been cheated"

Disagree. The longest club in your bag should be the longest, strongest loft you can hit reasonably consistently. If that's effectively a 2 iron with "4" on it, fine. If it's a 4 iron a.k.a. "5" then that's OK. With the wedges you can't have one to cover every 10 yards but you probably need one to fill the gap, but that's not a problem.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Does it matter ?

Just hit whatever club gets you the distance you want regardless of what’s on the bottom of the club

 

[Maninblack4612]

Does it matter ?

Just hit whatever club gets you the distance you want regardless of what’s on the bottom of the club

In the words of Basil Fawlty "Specialist subject, the bleedin' obvious"

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I don’t think courses are to short for the amateur player, they are to short for tour pros but that is only about 1% of players who play the game.
The average club golfer doesn’t it 250 to 275, that distance is on the upper end for club golfers.
Rory’s average driving distance in 2019 is 313.5 yards.

Keep hearing the argument that courses are getting longer but I am far from certain that there has been a significant increase in the length of club rather than tournament courses.

If that assumption is correct then it appears that modern technology has not made the game easier for club golfers as scores have not particularly improved in club medals etc;

 

[ScienceBoy]

What do the numbers on the bottom even mean?

What is important is just picking the right club, be it called a wedge but has 42* loft, a 7 iron that goes 220 or a 4 iron that really should be a 1 iron.

Doesn't really mean much in the end, just keep the ball on the short stuff and try to get par or better, bogey will do in a pinch.