Loft progression

[HomerJSimpson]

To me the number is irrelevant on the bottom of the club. I know how far I hit what is called my "7 iron" and in reality many on here would be a club if not two longer than me. I simply choose what I feel is the club to get me to the green and never worry what it says on the bottom let alone what loft it may or may not have.

 

[Maninblack4612]

To me the number is irrelevant on the bottom of the club. I know how far I hit what is called my "7 iron" and in reality many on here would be a club if not two longer than me. I simply choose what I feel is the club to get me to the green and never worry what it says on the bottom let alone what loft it may or may not have.

This is undoubtedly true, it's the reason for it which is debatable. The main one is, I'm sure, to stop the ball launching too high. I also think there's a bit of kidology on the part of the manufactureres. A person might think that they can't hit a 4 iron so the manufacturers make it easy to hit & call it a 5 iron. I can't handle a traditional 3 iron but my 4 iron is a lot easier to get airborne & carries about 15 yards farther than the previous one.

 

[albie999]

If people have time, worth taking a look at the below from the Average Golfer, he is actually discussing this issue, which to be honest, I agree with him on his points

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is undoubtedly true, it's the reason for it which is debatable. The main one is, I'm sure, to stop the ball launching too high. I also think there's a bit of kidology on the part of the manufactureres. A person might think that they can't hit a 4 iron so the manufacturers make it easy to hit & call it a 5 iron. I can't handle a traditional 3 iron but my 4 iron is a lot easier to get airborne & carries about 15 yards farther than the previous one.

I have no doubts lofts have been cranked and shafts lengthened and manufacturers like TM have definitely focused on "hot irons" in the last 3-5 years selling distance to the average player. I agree that my 7 iron is probably at best an old fashioned 6 iron (if not 5) but it's about using the tools in the most efficient way and to be honest I am looking on the back of another thread of sticking a hybrid in to replace my 4 iron and possible even the 5 to make it as easy for myself as I can. That said regardless of the loft, you still need to have a vaguely functional and repeatable swing to get the best from your kit and knowing your own distances in my mind is as important

 

[Bxm Foxy]

I'd much prefer the loft on the bottom of the club. Makes perfect sense doesn't it???

 

[jim8flog]

In one respect the manufacturers are shooting themselves in their foot.

Back in the 90s most players bought a set of clubs which were 3-SW with sensible gaps between the PW and SW.

Now a lot of players only buy 5/6 iron to PW and buy wedges to suit with many buying their wedges from a different manufacturer.

The last time I bought a set of clubs where the wedges matched the set was in the 90s.

 

[SGC001]

It's a bit of both, if u get a combo set the blade will have more loft than the cavity it swaps in for. The con part gets really obvious with longer drivers when most golfers would benefit from shorter shafts.

Ball technology has affected club design too since they launch higher and spin less which is when hybrids became more prominent.

Graphite shafts been half an inch longer is the bigger con, just saves the manufacturer money on production as dont need to adjust head to keep balance for the lighter shaft

The number is irrelevant it's the gaps that count and if u can hit them.

 

[SGC001]

In one respect the manufacturers are shooting themselves in their foot.

Back in the 90s most players bought a set of clubs which were 3-SW with sensible gaps between the PW and SW.

Now a lot of players only buy 5/6 iron to PW and buy wedges to suit with many buying their wedges from a different manufacturer.

The last time I bought a set of clubs where the wedges matched the set was in the 90s.

You pay the same price or more now for 5 to Pw as you used too for 3-sw, pretty good deal for the manufacturers, like smaller chocolate bars costing more.

 

[Orikoru]

Crow posted this interesting chart in another thread. Question is, is this good or bad? There is a school of thought that says that it's an attempt by the manufacturers to con the public i.e. "our 5 iron goes further than yours". I disagree. The fact is that modern irons are so good at getting the ball airborne that, if the lofts weren't reduced, the ball would launch far too high. I don't have any figures but would imagine that the launch angle of a modern club is similar to an old one of the same number. The difference will be the distance that the ball goes. This is good, not bad, & helps us cope with ever lengthening courses & reduces the difference in distance between us & the pros.

I recently changed to a set where the 6 iron was, for example, the same loft & length as my old 5 iron. It also went 10 to 15 yards farther due to the thinner face. The advantage is that I can hit the 4 iron, really a 3 iron, farther & better than my old club. OK, I had to add a gap wedge (see my earlier thread where I said that nobody needed 4 wedges!) but the advantage of being able to hit long irons into the wind makes it, for me, well worthwhile.

I'm 73 & need all the help I can get. The game is more fun using these clubs & I wouldn't want to handicap myself any further by using older equipment.

Conning the customers? Only if you don't know the facts.

In response to the first bold part - it is a bit of both I think. I believe you're right about the extra help making them too high and having to lower the loft to accommodate - but if it was purely that they would go the same distance wouldn't they? They're obviously overcompensating for that so that they do go further and they can market them as such.

There are two main drawbacks, or annoyances for me.

1. Since the pitching wedge is getting longer and longer, this means golfers are having to purchase more wedges to fill the gaps. A 'gap wedge' is now a commonly accepted term, but 20 years ago they didn't exist because there was no 'gap'. With some sets now you'd actually need two wedges between your PW and SW the way it's going.

2. Iron sets are now starting at 4 or 5 rather than 2 or 3 because the average golfer can't hit a 2 or 3 iron anymore because the lofts have gone too low. So are the manufacturers making up this shortfall at the other end of the set by throwing in an extra wedge? Are they heck. Iron sets are getting more expensive every year, and you're actually getting less clubs as they tend to only be seven irons in the set instead of nine like the old days.

So yes - manufacturers ARE conning customers. We're paying more money for less irons, and having to shell out extra money for more wedges as well!

 

[garyinderry]

Maybe these new multi material, tech packed irons are actually a bit more expensive to produce these days.

 

[azazel]

My first full set of clubs (25-odd years ago) had three woods, 10 irons and a putter.

Now I've got: three woods (albeit one is called a "hybrid"), 10 irons (albeit two of them are now called "gap" and "lob" wedges) and a putter.

So the only real change is the price a "set" costs these days. Other than that I don't see any ripping-off in terms of the naming or labelling of clubs since nothing much has really changed numerically, the only difference being the increase in playability of modern clubs. That doesn't mean the price itself isn't a rip off of course...

 

[Robster59]

When I bought my last set of irons (Callaway XR) I did a comparison of lofts to my irons at the time (Mizuno MX900) and each XR iron was effectively one club stronger (i.e. XR 6 iron loft was the same as MX900 5 iron). So I had to get my head around the fact that I had to change my distances per club. Also I only bought 5-PW as the 4i was the same loft as my 5 wood! And I didn't get the SW so I finished up getting Cleveland Gap and Sand wedges.
Maybe the manufacturers should move to loft on the bottom rather than numbers. You get it on woods, hybrids and wedges so why not on irons? They're the anomaly (well OK putters as well).
Are the manufacturers misleading us? I would say so as they claim the new club hits X yards further than the previous model, but they will with stronger loft. New head and shaft design allows them to do this of course as they do aid forgiveness.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I posted the following link elsewhere - but it is most appropriate to this thread. It's all about loft and distance and how club lofts have changed over the years

http://www.leaderboard.com/loftinfo.htm

 

[Maninblack4612]

In response to the first bold part - it is a bit of both I think. I believe you're right about the extra help making them too high and having to lower the loft to accommodate - but if it was purely that they would go the same distance wouldn't they? They're obviously overcompensating for that so that they do go further and they can market them as such.

There are two main drawbacks, or annoyances for me.

1. Since the pitching wedge is getting longer and longer, this means golfers are having to purchase more wedges to fill the gaps. A 'gap wedge' is now a commonly accepted term, but 20 years ago they didn't exist because there was no 'gap'. With some sets now you'd actually need two wedges between your PW and SW the way it's going.

2. Iron sets are now starting at 4 or 5 rather than 2 or 3 because the average golfer can't hit a 2 or 3 iron anymore because the lofts have gone too low. So are the manufacturers making up this shortfall at the other end of the set by throwing in an extra wedge? Are they heck. Iron sets are getting more expensive every year, and you're actually getting less clubs as they tend to only be seven irons in the set instead of nine like the old days.

So yes - manufacturers ARE conning customers. We're paying more money for less irons, and having to shell out extra money for more wedges as well!

If you shop wisely you can do OK. I paid £400 for my 4 to PW set, same price my mate paid for each of his PXGs also 5 to PW + GW is the same as 4 to PW

 

[Orikoru]

If you shop wisely you can do OK. I paid £400 for my 4 to PW set, same price my mate paid for each of his PXGs also 5 to PW + GW is the same as 4 to PW

I didn't say you couldn't find a bargain if you shop around? I'm just saying that factually new standard iron sets contain less clubs than they used to.

 

[Springveldt]

In one respect the manufacturers are shooting themselves in their foot.

Back in the 90s most players bought a set of clubs which were 3-SW with sensible gaps between the PW and SW.

Now a lot of players only buy 5/6 iron to PW and buy wedges to suit with many buying their wedges from a different manufacturer.

The last time I bought a set of clubs where the wedges matched the set was in the 90s.

I'd argue the opposite, it's the consumers getting shot in the foot not the manufacturers. You are paying more for 5-PW than you would have paid for 3-SW in a lot of cases nowadays and every major manufacturer also has their own set of wedges you can buy. They are double dipping basically.

Mike Newton just did a comparison of a blade vs a GI iron at the same loft. Results will probably surprise a lot of people.

 

[albie999]

The only issue I have with scratch golfers like with Mike Newton (although, I do like his vids - and already seen this one), is that these are pro's who tend to hit the middle of the club face a lot more than amateur golfers. This is part of the reason I like the Average Golfer videos, as OK he is still a better golfer than me, he is still technically an average golfer, so his reviews tend to be more "real world"

 

[Bxm Foxy]

Those Wilsons are beautiful!!!

 

[jim8flog]

You pay the same price or more now for 5 to Pw as you used too for 3-sw, pretty good deal for the manufacturers, like smaller chocolate bars costing more.

True. but that is just inflation, cost of sponsorship and the falling £.

3 years ago a new Vokey wedge was about £80 now they are about £130.

 

[patricks148]

Disagree. The longest club in your bag should be the longest, strongest loft you can hit reasonably consistently. If that's effectively a 2 iron with "4" on it, fine. If it's a 4 iron a.k.a. "5" then that's OK. With the wedges you can't have one to cover every 10 yards but you probably need one to fill the gap, but that's not a problem.

yeah great idea, convice people they can't hit 2 irons as loft is your friend, then sell them a 2 iron disguised as a 4 iron anyway.. genius