Level of rules awareness to expect in UK

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If I am warned in advance that I am about to break a rule I am grateful. If I am unsure whether the advice I am being given is correct - I am grateful but may choose to continue at my risk. If I am told AFTER the event - having played the shot or whatever - and I feel that I could easily have been warned beforehand - I accept any subsequent penalty but must work off very rapidly any resentment I will have against my fellow player.

Whether in a friendly knock or a highly competitive match, I think it incumbent on us to warn our fellow player of a possible rule infringement he is about to make. This with honesty on our own part are the basics of the spirit of the game.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yeah, this is the biggest issue IMHO. How to proceed as you know someone has technically broken a rule but calling them up on it could result in some bad feeling and ruin the round if you're playing with someone who you don't know how they will take you raising it.

I say apologetically 'sorry - but you have just broken a rule - I was going to try and stop you but you played before I could'

I can do this with a clear conscience as I know that this is true - that I DO try and prevent my fellow players breaking a rule.

 

[dejf]

I think it should be the norm that every golfer is ready to accept a claim that he possibly broke the rules. If there was no hard feelings over such claims and everyone stays calm and accept that it could happen, it would be great. You could thus point things out every time you are unsure and not to worry about ruining the round.

This does not mean you should always agree with the claim. Just accept it calmly that someone has different opinion and it can be resolved with the golf book on 19th hole later, or with a referee.

If we are worried about pointing out about breaking rules because there might be angry reactions, ... that atmosphere does not belong to the golf in my opinion.
If I am found wrong and someone points that out, I should be thankful for saving me from DQ.

We can always adjust rules as we need when we go for a funny round with friends, I have nothing against it. But in competitions, the rules should be sacred, no matter how poor our golf skills are and how far are we from PGA level.

There is another problem with not pointing out about breaking rules. In match play, you can do it. You are even allowed by the rules to do it. It is only you who could suffer from it if you do not make your claim. But in stroke play, if you see other player breaking rules and you do not point that out, you are not being fair to all other players in all other flights who might want to penalize the offender. This is why in stroke play you are obliged by rules (under DQ penalty) to report any breaking of the rules you witness.


I would love to play golf with players who can accept this and won't have any bad feelings regardless whether I am right or wrong when I point something out.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think it should be the norm that every golfer is ready to accept a claim that he possibly broke the rules. If there was no hard feelings over such claims and everyone stays calm and accept that it could happen, it would be great. You could thus point things out every time you are unsure and not to worry about ruining the round.

This does not mean you should always agree with the claim. Just accept it calmly that someone has different opinion and it can be resolved with the golf book on 19th hole later, or with a referee.

If we are worried about pointing out about breaking rules because there might be angry reactions, ... that atmosphere does not belong to the golf in my opinion.
If I am found wrong and someone points that out, I should be thankful for saving me from DQ.

We can always adjust rules as we need when we go for a funny round with friends, I have nothing against it. But in competitions, the rules should be sacred, no matter how poor our golf skills are and how far are we from PGA level.

There is another problem with not pointing out about breaking rules. In match play, you can do it. You are even allowed by the rules to do it. It is only you who could suffer from it if you do not make your claim. But in stroke play, if you see other player breaking rules and you do not point that out, you are not being fair to all other players in all other flights who might want to penalize the offender. This is why in stroke play you are obliged by rules (under DQ penalty) to report any breaking of the rules you witness.


I would love to play golf with players who can accept this and won't have any bad feelings regardless whether I am right or wrong when I point something out.

Indeed - in a competition I believe that you have a duty of care to the competition to pull up a fellow player when they break a rule.

 

[dejf]

If I am told AFTER the event - having played the shot or whatever - and I feel that I could easily have been warned beforehand - I accept any subsequent penalty but must work off very rapidly any resentment I will have against my fellow player.

It really depends on the situation, but it could happen easily that by not telling you before, the other player breaks the rules. For example, if you tee up in front of the tees and the other player sees it and only waits until you make your stroke just to tell you that, it is a simple penalty for you, but even simpler DQ for the other player.

On the other hand, if you go and play from water hazard or bunker, you should not expect anyone will tell you "not to touch the ground" to prevent the penalty, as it is not obvious that you do not know it.

 

[dejf]

I say apologetically 'sorry - but you have just broken a rule - I was going to try and stop you but you played before I could'

I can do this with a clear conscience as I know that this is true - that I DO try and prevent my fellow players breaking a rule.

There was a large discussion on this topic in other forum I attended and the result was that the best way how to tell someone is not "you have broken a rule", but "I am not sure if this was allowed". In other words, the words like "might" or "not sure" to involve uncertainity might help you avoid hard feelings. Even if you are sure.

And another thing is that if possible, do not try to resolve the situation at the particular moment. Just summarize the facts and leave the final ruling after the game (even if you are sure again). This might help not ruining the round too.

 

[Foxholer]

It really depends on the situation, but it could happen easily that by not telling you before, the other player breaks the rules. For example, if you tee up in front of the tees and the other player sees it and only waits until you make your stroke just to tell you that, it is a simple penalty for you, but even simpler DQ for the other player.

On the other hand, if you go and play from water hazard or bunker, you should not expect anyone will tell you "not to touch the ground" to prevent the penalty, as it is not obvious that you do not know it.

Re the highlighted bit...

How so?

 

[dejf]

Re the highlighted bit...

How so?

As this behavior is strictly against the spirit of the game. If someone practically know you are going to break the rules and you are not aware of it and it is possible to warn you, then waiting for you to do it and only telling you after is not acceptable.

 

[Foxholer]

As this behavior is strictly against the spirit of the game. If someone practically know you are going to break the rules and you are not aware of it and it is possible to warn you, then waiting for you to do it and only telling you after is not acceptable.

I thought that was what you meant, but needed to check.

While a fairly reprehensible act, I'm uncertain that a DQ (presumably under 1.4) is appropriate.

Maybe ColinL, or Rulefan, as qualified Refs, could comment.

 

[CMAC]

As this behavior is strictly against the spirit of the game. If someone practically know you are going to break the rules and you are not aware of it and it is possible to warn you, then waiting for you to do it and only telling you after is not acceptable.

happened to me, par 3 hit a 4 iron bullet to 3 feet. After I played the FC's said I was at the yellow markers not whites. Now, they obviously knew and didnt say, it's not their responsibility to say if they see someone obviously about to break a rule.

They didnt do anything wrong, apart from being gits!

(my re-teed 4 iron from the whites which were adjacent, didnt even hit the green)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

happened to me, par 3 hit a 4 iron bullet to 3 feet. After I played the FC's said I was at the yellow markers not whites. Now, they obviously knew and didnt say, it's not their responsibility to say if they see someone obviously about to break a rule.

They didnt do anything wrong, apart from being gits!

(my re-teed 4 iron from the whites which were adjacent, didnt even hit the green)

Now like you I would be very upset by that...but it might have been that your PPs were simply not paying attention. However...gits...

I don't believe I have ever played a round of golf when a fellow competitor has played from the wrong tee or has played from in front of the markers. I have however stopped this happening loads of times.

BTW I disagree - I think it is morally and fundamental in the spirit of the game that if they spotted you about to play off the wrong tee that they tell you.

 

[guest100718]

I say apologetically 'sorry - but you have just broken a rule - I was going to try and stop you but you played before I could'

I can do this with a clear conscience as I know that this is true - that I DO try and prevent my fellow players breaking a rule.

Last medal I played, FC chipped in from off the green for a birdie but the ball wedged against the flag and was not holed. He walked over and picked up his ball that wasnt holed out properly. what do you do?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Last medal I played, FC chipped in from off the green for a birdie but the ball wedged against the flag and was not holed. He walked over and picked up his ball that wasnt holed out properly. what do you do?

You tell him he didn't hole out. That's a basic piece of stupidity on his part that you have no time to stop or correct before he infringes. in congratulating him for his chip I'd probably have told him to make sure he holes out properly - but in this case you didn't - all you can do is point out his mistake. He'll then agree and feel stupid but shouldn't feel resentful to you

 

[guest100718]

You tell him he didn't hole out. That's a basic piece of stupidity on his part that you have no time to stop or correct before he infringes. in congratulating him for his chip I'd probably have told him to make sure he holes out properly - but in this case you didn't - all you can do is point out his mistake. He'll then agree and feel stupid but shouldn't feel resentful to you

Yes had I had a chance to tell him to make sure he holes it I would have, but it happened very quickly.

 

[dejf]

happened to me, par 3 hit a 4 iron bullet to 3 feet. After I played the FC's said I was at the yellow markers not whites. Now, they obviously knew and didnt say, it's not their responsibility to say if they see someone obviously about to break a rule.

They didnt do anything wrong, apart from being gits!

(my re-teed 4 iron from the whites which were adjacent, didnt even hit the green)

If they knew before (and did not just realize after you played) then I do not agree. It might be possible that they were not paying attention and realized just after that you made a perfect shot. In that case they would really did nothing wrong. But if they knew before the shot, they did everything wrong.

It is not your responsibility to look how other behave and check their every step to prevent something. However, if you see something like this, and you are at least quite certain (to the level you are about to report it later) it is very wrong if you do not do that as soon as possible. It might be hard sometimes or you might come late, but that is not a problem. A problem is only if you willingly wait to see those extra strokes being added to players score with an internal "gotcha" feeling.

 

[dejf]

I thought that was what you meant, but needed to check.

While a fairly reprehensible act, I'm uncertain that a DQ (presumably under 1.4) is appropriate.

Maybe ColinL, or Rulefan, as qualified Refs, could comment.

Sure, please let me know their opinion. I believe the conditions are crucial in this. You can have two very similar situations with different rulings on this. I think the important is the intention of the player who reported late and his ability to report early.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

You tell him he didn't hole out. That's a basic piece of stupidity on his part that you have no time to stop or correct before he infringes. in congratulating him for his chip I'd probably have told him to make sure he holes out properly - but in this case you didn't - all you can do is point out his mistake. He'll then agree and feel stupid but shouldn't feel resentful to you

What occurs in this situation? I presume a penalty? One shot or two? Do you then go through the process of replacing the ball wedged against the pin, lift it out, let the ball drop etc?

CMAC - With your teeing incident, were you penalised for teeing from the wrong box or was it a straight re-load from the correct place, shot 1 in effect?

 

[guest100718]

What occurs in this situation? I presume a penalty? One shot or two? Do you then go through the process of replacing the ball wedged against the pin, lift it out, let the ball drop etc?

CMAC - With your teeing incident, were you penalised for teeing from the wrong box or was it a straight re-load from the correct place, shot 1 in effect?

for the ball against the flag he should have carefully removed the flag and if the ball dropped then he has holed out, as it was he should have placed the ball on the side of the hole and putted out for a par.

For CMAC I think its a 2 shot pen and and a reload from the correct tee , essentially 3 off the tee.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

for the ball against the flag ...as it was he should have placed the ball on the side of the hole and putted out for a par.

Plus two shot penalty!

 

[woody69]

What occurs in this situation? I presume a penalty? One shot or two? Do you then go through the process of replacing the ball wedged against the pin, lift it out, let the ball drop etc?

17-4/1

Ball Resting Against Flagstick Lifted Before Being Holed

Q.A player's ball is resting against the flagstick, but it is not holed because all of it is not below the level of the lip of the hole. However, the player, believing the ball is holed, picks it up. What is the ruling?
A.The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 20-1 for lifting his ball without marking its position. The player must replace the ball against the flagstick and may then apply Rule 17-4.

17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick

When a player’s ball rests against the flagstick in the hole and the ball is notholed, the player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the flagstick, and if the ball falls into the hole, the player is deemed to haveholed out with his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if moved, must be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.