Let's tax pensioners

[PJ87]

Lot of my friends will never be able to buy

I’m lucky that I got onto the ladder with a 3 bed semi in havering. My wage covers everything including raising our child and childcare then my wife’s (part time now) teaching assistant money covers our treats like holidays

Many others can’t afford it however the ones who piss me off are the ones who have to go away 2 times a year. We are going away a few times but only the wife’s going abroad .. sending her to Spain for her 30th which I did a weekend of overtime to cover the cost save dipping into our money

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Watching your house value increase in value 6x the rate of inflation or more is not hard-earned, just luck. Not saying you didn't work hard but people who bought pre 1995 or so have seen their primary asset's value sky rocket which is a big advantage.
Sell up, downsize and retire comfortably on profit whilst the next generation struggle, not your problem I get that but govt's need to address the situation somehow. Current generation 35% of whom will not be able to buy a house have it harder, no question. Would you like to be still living with your parents at 35? Many (including hard working folks) have no choice because a deposit on property is unattainable and 3 or 4 x salary for mortgage buys nothing.

Indeed - in 1996 we bought our house for £93k - it is now £600-£650k. What have I done to earn the huge equity now in the property. Diddly-squat truth be told. I might still grumble if someone came to take some of it away - but if I could see a decent justification then I think I could swallow that pill.

Mind you - I strongly suspect that I'll be contributing £10k+ to the house buying of both of my children - so maybe I could be exempt of paying additional tax on my equity for this if my children do not receive the £25k as they will get it from me.

But this £10k/25yr thing aside - should working age pensioners not pay NI on their income?

 

[PJ87]

Indeed - in 1996 we bought our house for £93k - it is now £600-£650k. What have I done to earn the huge equity now in the property. Diddly-squat truth be told. I might still grumble if someone came to take some of it away - but if I could see a decent justification then I think I could swallow that pill.

Mind you - I strongly suspect that I'll be contributing £10k+ to the house buying of both of my children - so maybe I could be exempt of paying additional tax on my equity for this if my children do not receive the £25k as they will get it from me.

But this £10k/25yr thing aside - should working age pensioners not pay NI on their income?

Arguably they should pay because surely at that age is when you use the nhs the most?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

"Inter-generational fairness" who comes up with these titles ?

Agree with the Hobbit's sentiments, if you want it bad enough you work hard for it. £10k for a deposit at 25 ...... you're having a laugh 😠

The inter-generational divide is a serious social issue.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

The inter-generational divide is a serious social issue.

But only the millennials can have a serious discussion on social media to resolve it ........... or maybe not.

 

[IanM]

The inter-generational divide is a serious social issue.

....paraphrasing Socrates of course, although the actual origins are not certain. Martial, writing around 50AD also had some interesting observations on it too....

 

[chrisd]

Arguably they should pay because surely at that age is when you use the nhs the most?

But like most generation's we paid in while other older generation's were using it.

 

[PJ87]

But like most generation's we paid in while other older generation's were using it.

What happens to this generation who will pay their NI and watch the nhs disappear along with their pensions?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

What happens to this generation who will pay their NI and watch the nhs disappear along with their pensions?

That's a whole new and very interesting question.

The NHS can never have enough money as research will continue to result in new drugs and treatments that patients will understandably want access to.

All of us, whatever our age, need to face up to this and the need for everyone to pay more for the service to continue.

Personally I would favour a targeted increase in the basic rate of Income Tax as the fairest method of raising the necessary funds.

Whatever means is used we have to realise that a top class NHS cannot be provided on the cheap.

 

[Hobbit]

Arguably they should pay because surely at that age is when you use the nhs the most?

Not seen many pensioners in the maternity ward, or special care baby unit, or the paediatric unit. 3 of the most expensive units to fund.

Most pensioners have paid tax and NI for upwards of 50 years. Pretty sure that should have paid a few years NHS care later in life, although not seen many pensioners spending years in hospital.

 

[Hobbit]

I have 6 children, 5 of which went to uni. 4 have paid off their uni loan by age 35. 4 have bought their own homes, 2 of which are now in the second home purchase. 1 of them bought in London, and 3 of them have bought in Manchester. 5 of them have cars. All of them will holiday abroad this year.

They have grafted for everything, and achieved everything they set out to (realistically) achieve.

Young adults that work with a similar ethos that previous generations worked to are well capable of living a similar life style, if not better, than previous generations. There's far too many lazy excuses, and too many cuddly liberals willing to believe them.

 

[bobmac]

So kids today leave school, go on a gap year or 2, spend 3 or 4 years at college and then get gifted £10,000 of my hard earned pension to buy a house?

Watching your house value increase in value 6x the rate of inflation or more is not hard-earned, just luck.

What's the cost of my house got to do with the govt taxing my pension to pay for kids house deposit who have paid nothing into the system?

I paid rent for 20 years while I worked and saved for a deposit and my current house (bought in 2000) has gone up by £50-55,000 in 18 years so lets not pretend all retirees are rolling in it.

Maybe those living in the leafy London surburbs can afford it but not all can.

Sell up, downsize and retire comfortably on profit whilst the next generation struggle

A bit tricky to downsize from a 2 bedroom bungalow.

 

[PJ87]

I have 6 children, 5 of which went to uni. 4 have paid off their uni loan by age 35. 4 have bought their own homes, 2 of which are now in the second home purchase. 1 of them bought in London, and 3 of them have bought in Manchester. 5 of them have cars. All of them will holiday abroad this year.

They have grafted for everything, and achieved everything they set out to (realistically) achieve.

Young adults that work with a similar ethos that previous generations worked to are well capable of living a similar life style, if not better, than previous generations. There's far too many lazy excuses, and too many cuddly liberals willing to believe them.

Uni needs to be made more unfashionable. Everyone goes for the sake of it now

My wife has a degree in child psychology , works in a school. her degree cost a fortune to get yet doesn’t reward her finically

On the other hand I left school at 16 to do a modern apprentice .. same company I’m with now. Earning 2.8 times her salary with just a nvq and GCSEs to my name officially

Focus should be switched to getting more school leavers into work environment young to promote a sense of working for a living rather than being handed money

 

[chrisd]

I have 6 children, 5 of which went to uni. 4 have paid off their uni loan by age 35. 4 have bought their own homes, 2 of which are now in the second home purchase. 1 of them bought in London, and 3 of them have bought in Manchester. 5 of them have cars. All of them will holiday abroad this year.

They have grafted for everything, and achieved everything they set out to (realistically) achieve.

Young adults that work with a similar ethos that previous generations worked to are well capable of living a similar life style, if not better, than previous generations. There's far too many lazy excuses, and too many cuddly liberals willing to believe them.

I only had one son of 35, he works hard and earns more than I could only have dreamt of earning. He didn't go to uni, left grammar school without doing his A levels but applied himself. Like yours, he's married, 2 children and another on the way, own their own house etc etc - as you say, grafted for what he needed like his parents!

 

[SteveJay]

Culturally the nation, and the world, is changing. Home ownership might no longer be the aspiration of many millennials.......generation rent is the new buzz word. They will rent their home, rent a car (effectively via PCP), rent their mobile phone, even rent their music library and films, so Society has to change to reflect these trends. We might become more like other European countries where home ownership is not the holy grail, especially as people now move around far more.

However, as has been pointed out, that means working for longer as in retirement (whenever that might be) they will need an income to continue paying rent, unlike home owners who can look forward to no mortgage at some stage.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I only had one son of 35, he works hard and earns more than I could only have dreamt of earning. He didn't go to uni, left grammar school without doing his A levels but applied himself. Like yours, he's married, 2 children and another on the way, own their own house etc etc - as you say, grafted for what he needed like his parents!

My children both went to Uni - they both got 2:1s and are both employed and work very hard. They do not get paid very much. They still have massive debts. You can work very hard and not get paid very much. I think they just try and ignore the huge debts they have hanging - and get on with life as best they can given what they earn.

As it happens I think they would be OK not being home owners...if they can afford a half-decent lifestyle.

 

[Hobbit]

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72715106.html

The above 3 bed end terrace cost me £17,500 in 1984. Currently on the market for £79k.

Very tempted to buy this 2 bed semi, £62.5k. I know the area well, and its a great, quiet area. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72902351.html

 

[MegaSteve]

Old folk vote...

Can't see any party proposing this...
With the very high risk of costing votes...

Right or wrong a non-starter I believe...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72715106.html

The above 3 bed end terrace cost me £17,500 in 1984. Currently on the market for £79k.

Very tempted to buy this 2 bed semi, £62.5k. I know the area well, and its a great, quiet area. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72902351.html

this little end terrace is also in a nice area...and it will make a couple or young family a perfect home. Only one problem. Unless you actually work in London no London salaries for most out here.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-53996061.html

 

[chrisd]

My children both went to Uni - they both got 2:1s and are both employed and work very hard. They do not get paid very much. They still have massive debts. You can work very hard and not get paid very much. I think they just try and ignore the huge debts they have hanging - and get on with life as best they can given what they earn.

As it happens I think they would be OK not being home owners...if they can afford a half-decent lifestyle.

Good for them and a credit to their parents, I hope that they get from life what they want.