Junior Doctors Strike

[FairwayDodger]

And as for negotiating a deal that might be acceptable, that is my point . How are the DoH to know what might be acceptable if the profession's own representatives don't know?

Indeed and they'd be right to be annoyed by it. But reacting to a democratic vote by saying "tough" isn't great is it? Imagine that reaction to other recent votes....

 

[FairwayDodger]

How long do you give people to negotiate? This has been going on for years and the sticking point is the same. There has not been progress for months. As an employer you reach a point where you have to say "this is the deal, like it or lump it". If the junior doctors don't like it then they will have to leave and find work with another employer. That is how the rest of us work.

The difference being we, the public, need these doctors, there is already a shortage, and they have plenty of much more appealing opportunities elsewhere. Once again the tories seem to be placing their own ideology ahead of the good of the country.

 

[SocketRocket]

Im getting confused on what the Doctors want. They seem to be suggesting they want to save 'Our NHS' but don't seem to come out and suggest exactly what they do want. Is it more Money, is it less hours, is it five day working? It seems rather odd that they have their representatives recommending they accept the latest offer but they reject it. Fair enough but what the public want (before their support runs out) is a clear statement of what they actually want other than the confusing messages they display on banners.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Im getting confused on what the Doctors want. They seem to be suggesting they want to save 'Our NHS' but don't seem to come out and suggest exactly what they do want. Is it more Money, is it less hours, is it five day working? It seems rather odd that they have their representatives recommending they accept the latest offer but they reject it. Fair enough but what the public want (before their support runs out) is a clear statement of what they actually want other than the confusing messages they display on banners.

After the Referendum debate I never thought I would say this but I completely agree with you on this.

At present it would seem to be akin to dealing with a recalcitrant adolescent; knows what he/she doesn't want but not what he/she does want.

Save Our NHS is an admirable sentiment but how is it to be achieved within available budgets?

 

[FairwayDodger]

After the Referendum debate I never thought I would say this but I completely agree with you on this.

At present it would seem to be akin to dealing with a recalcitrant adolescent; knows what he/she doesn't want but not what he/she does want.

Save Our NHS is an admirable sentiment but how is it to be achieved within available budgets?

Should be a doddle once they get the extra £350m a week!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Should be a doddle once they get the extra £350m a week!

I'm not holding my breath!

 

[HowlingGale]

Keep going back to it. The NHS is on it's knees. All other staff have taken a pounding over the last few years and the doctors have remained immune due to a different contract.
The government offered them teacakes toasted. They refused. Then they offered them toasted teacakes. They refused. Sorry but if they don't like it GTF. That's what I need to do if I don't like my contract.

The prestige may have gone from being a doctor nowadays as it doesn't pay enough but I personally know of one from an extremely well to do family (world famous) who sticks it out. That's not for the money. That's for the good of what that they can do without the need of an enhanced contract.

 

[Kellfire]

A quick look on NHS jobs at the going rate for a consultant will soon tell you the job definitely pays enough. Yes they have to earn their way there but so do we all.

 

[JD2773]

Keep going back to it. The NHS is on it's knees. All other staff have taken a pounding over the last few years and the doctors have remained immune due to a different contract.
The government offered them teacakes toasted. They refused. Then they offered them toasted teacakes. They refused. Sorry but if they don't like it GTF. That's what I need to do if I don't like my contract.

The prestige may have gone from being a doctor nowadays as it doesn't pay enough but I personally know of one from an extremely well to do family (world famous) who sticks it out. That's not for the money. That's for the good of what that they can do without the need of an enhanced contract.

Yes the NHS is on its knees and is unlikely to continue in its current form unless the public wake up about what is going on and then care enough to do something about it!

I'm not sure I agree with you that doctors have been spared from the pounding other staff in the NHS have received though! Just a small amount of research shows that junior doctors have had to suffer in the same way as other non medical staff.

For example the pay freeze that was actually applied to doctors before it was applied to other front line NHS staff has meant a fall in real term earnings of around £7-10k at the foundation level which is when new doctors entering training.

Also perks that existed for junior doctors only a little over 10 years ago have been completely abolished such as free accommodation, free food and drink in the doctors mess, free laundry service etc.

Against this junior doctors have increasing costs, for example it is now compulsory to belong to a legal defence organisation and pay the applicable fees, you also have the cost of GMC registration, cost of further training such as exams which are required to progress through your training and can run into many thousands of pounds.

Thing that really worries me about your statement though is the "if they don't like it gtf (out)". There is already a huge recruitment and retention crisis for frontline healthcare staff in this country and in particular doctors. Over the last 2 years we have seen numbers of doctors drop by 5000 across the country already. Early evidence suggests that many doctors are doing exactly what you have suggested and are gtf out. Which is great until either you or one of your loved ones ends up needing to be admitted to hospital!