Joining fees

[Maninblack4612]

A few years back all the clubs in my area had joining fees & membership was fairly steady with few annual resignations & a small waiting list where prospective members had to wait only one or two years to join. Once the waiting lists vanished so did the joining fees. As soon as one club scrapped the joining fee all the others were obliged to follow. The members immediately became more transient. For example, we had 11 members leave en bloc a few years ago and most returned last year. With joining fees, members thought twice about moving or resigning their membership and the club was more of a club because of it. I don't think we'll see the like of this again. If it becomes easy to obtain & retain a handicap without being a club member I think the trend towards "pay as you play" will accelerate.

 

[SAPCOR1]

I have never paid a joining fee and don't think I ever would. If I was on the coast and it was a links course I may have a different opinion if I really wanted to be a member.

A £1500 joining fee could get me 25 rounds at Gullane for example......

 

[Break90]

We pay a Joining Fee equal to a full year's subs, so 1150 odd quid.

Makes the first year a bit pricey, but I was more than happy to pay it to join the club I wanted to join. Plenty of cheaper options around here, but nowhere else I wanted to join as much.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Clubs these days get the money from a credit company up front and then you pay them the payments

If members leave they still need to pay the full amount off via the credit agreement - a member of our club recently left before fully paying the joining fee - credit company still kept the credit agreement going

Not strictly true, certainly in my club's case. They did away with Fairway Credit several years ago and now handle all the membership renewals up front. In answer to the question of how big a % does this involve, simple answer is I don't know but I know of three people that jumped ship without paying the other part of the joining fee. Whether the club bothered to get that back I'm unsure without asking but it would probably be a long winded, timely and costly process.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Then that's the clubs fault

Why would any club move away from a system that guarentees the money is in I have no idea

 

[Slab]

Maybe it’s not about the golf club & how long a member should stay a member

A generation or two ago when joining fees were far more the norm people moved house far less frequently as adults than they do now, some reports saying it’s an average of 6 house moves as adults now and moving home is far more common in the under 45yr age group.

This behaviour & demographic doesn’t fit well with a golf club model of charging a joining fee to try to stop people leaving

How many of us could (geographically) still be a member at the first course you joined as an adult?

Edit: or more accurately given how many people return to their roots, how many of us could have maintained an ongoing membership to the first club?

 

[SAPCOR1]

Depending on the fees charged to both club and members it can be cheaper to use their own Bacs software, which also removes the associated bank charges.

Additionally a lot of people wouldn't pay either a surcharge for paying monthly or want to have a credit agreement just to play golf. I know that I wouldn't

 

[hovis]

The joining fee is your stakeholding in the "business" that is the Club and the business model for such clubs is not and never can be built round transient members.

when I have a stake in a business I have to have some sort of reward. what do you get for having a stake in a golf club? they allow you to play golf there? they certainly don't pay dividends!

also, if a club wont lower of waive joining fee then that's fine, good for them. but then don't moan that they're loosing members and need money.

imo in todays world golf clubs would be better of having no joining fee and slightly higher annual subs. it would allow movement from club to club and force golf clubs to improve in order to keep members. why would I want to be pinned down to one club for the rest of my life? 1400 is a lot of money to loose. if Whittington waived their fee they would get an addition income of at least 5k from the four of us!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Then that's the clubs fault

Why would any club move away from a system that guarentees the money is in I have no idea

A sweeping generilisation again. The club have clearly decided that the fees being charged to administer the scheme aren't cost effective and as someone pointed out, with our own software it's a cheaper and easier process to run. As I also pointed out, we've actually increased membership since waiving joining fees to the point where we are almost full, particularly for 7 day membership

 

[NWJocko]

when I have a stake in a business I have to have some sort of reward. what do you get for having a stake in a golf club? they allow you to play golf there? they certainly don't pay dividends!

also, if a club wont lower of waive joining fee then that's fine, good for them. but then don't moan that they're loosing members and need money.

imo in todays world golf clubs would be better of having no joining fee and slightly higher annual subs. it would allow movement from club to club and force golf clubs to improve in order to keep members. why would I want to be pinned down to one club for the rest of my life? 1400 is a lot of money to loose. if Whittington waived their fee they would get an addition income of at least 5k from the four of us!

Why would golf clubs be better off if you can move from one year to the next?

I can see why it's better for you/anyone else that wants to change regularly, not so much for the clubs IMO.

 

[hovis]

Why would golf clubs be better off if you can move from one year to the next?

I can see why it's better for you/anyone else that wants to change regularly, not so much for the clubs IMO.

joining fee puts a lot of customers off joining. top quality clubs like Whittington and beau desert are loosing money and the fairways are empty. I know of at least 10 golfers that would join Whittington if it wasn't for the joining fee. lets just say they did only stay for one year.....it would still generate 15k for that club.

how can 15k for a club be anything other that positive. beau desert cant afford to put sand in the bunkers at the moment. 15k would buy a lot of sand

 

[guest100718]

A sweeping generilisation again. The club have clearly decided that the fees being charged to administer the scheme aren't cost effective and as someone pointed out, with our own software it's a cheaper and easier process to run. As I also pointed out, we've actually increased membership since waiving joining fees to the point where we are almost full, particularly for 7 day membership

LP is teh king of sweeping generalisation...His earlier statement that clubs with joining fees are better than thse without is a good one....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

A sweeping generilisation again. The club have clearly decided that the fees being charged to administer the scheme aren't cost effective and as someone pointed out, with our own software it's a cheaper and easier process to run. As I also pointed out, we've actually increased membership since waiving joining fees to the point where we are almost full, particularly for 7 day membership

If clubs don't protect themselves and people leave without paying full subs or full joining fee then it's the clubs fault for leaving themselves open to it

Premium credit etc allow the club to get the full money into the club regardless of what the member does

And im not being specific in regards any particular golf club

 

[Slab]

Why would golf clubs be better off if you can move from one year to the next?

I can see why it's better for you/anyone else that wants to change regularly, not so much for the clubs IMO.

So is an ideal golf club model to have 90% of stable repeating members with only death/disaster events opening up opportunities for new members

So what is the purpose of a joining fee?

To keep members (or members funds) who otherwise might want/need to leave for some reason or another
To prevent less affluent people from joining
To subsidise membership fees
To get an added financial commitment (whatever that signifies) from new members
To attempt to force members into staying regardless of changes to club/course
To fill in a shortfall between subs & expenditure
To prevent promoting a transient membership (leaving aside whether that's a bad thing or not)

No idea how many (if any) of the above are true

 

[Deleted member 18588]

when I have a stake in a business I have to have some sort of reward. what do you get for having a stake in a golf club? they allow you to play golf there? they certainly don't pay dividends!

also, if a club wont lower of waive joining fee then that's fine, good for them. but then don't moan that they're loosing members and need money.

imo in todays world golf clubs would be better of having no joining fee and slightly higher annual subs. it would allow movement from club to club and force golf clubs to improve in order to keep members. why would I want to be pinned down to one club for the rest of my life? 1400 is a lot of money to loose. if Whittington waived their fee they would get an addition income of at least 5k from the four of us!

Would you be prepared to pay a higher sub than those existing members who have paid a joining fee?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

joining fee puts a lot of customers off joining. top quality clubs like Whittington and beau desert are loosing money and the fairways are empty. I know of at least 10 golfers that would join Whittington if it wasn't for the joining fee. lets just say they did only stay for one year.....it would still generate 15k for that club.

how can 15k for a club be anything other that positive. beau desert cant afford to put sand in the bunkers at the moment. 15k would buy a lot of sand

They could waive the joining fee but then smack 500 on top of the subs

For people that move around a lot then a club with a joining fee won't be ideal

But some ckubs like ourselves offer a membership which has increased subs but no joining fee and no rights to vote in agm etc

 

[hovis]

Would you be prepared to pay a higher sub than those existing members who have paid a joining fee?

Yes

 

[hovis]

But some ckubs like ourselves offer a membership which has increased subs but no joining fee and no rights to vote in agm etc

Sounds like a good idea to me

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yes

If there are enough like you then I agree that clubs should explore this idea.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sounds like a good idea to me

Understand a number around here are doing it because we are in commuter belt area a lot are only in the area for 3/4 years